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Old 12-29-2014, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Rochester NY (western NY)
1,021 posts, read 1,616,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Yes, white flight is still very much a problem in the United States today. However it is often more cleverly disguised as an economic issue than race. That is areas are zoned for housing on large lots, forbid apartment buildings/multifamily housing, have high taxes, etc.... All either out of design or intent keep *ahem* certain persons out.

Not to fear Obama and his former (Shaun Donovan) and current head of HUD have something new for the suburbs. HUD is going to *BUST* the suburbs by using the Fair Housing Act and whatever else they can.

How Rob Astorino lost millions in federal aid for Westchester - The New York WorldThe New York World

Progressive liberal Democrats *know* they lost more than they gained with the Civil Rights Act was passed. Whites simply packed up and moved when areas became too dark for their tastes.

What HUD and the Democrats/Liberals now want to do is bust the suburbs by forcing them to build "affordable" housing "apartments, townhouses, etc....) so that minorities can take advantage of the benefits the high tax base in such areas often provide. Things like excellent schools, healthcare, public services, etc....

Robert Astorino: Washington's 'Fair Housing' Assault on Local Zoning - WSJ

Housing segregation is holding back the promise of Brown v. Board of Education - The Washington Post
This is positively disgusting. You're basically erasing the idea of working hard for a nice life, living in a nice area with nice people. This is akin to giving someone lung cancer because they're healthier than their smoking counterparts, and it's not fair to the smokers that your health is so much better for making better decisions.

All of the bleeding heart sympathizers in this world need to all be sent to an island to live by themselves. Preferably on the moon where we really wouldn't have to worry about them.
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Old 12-29-2014, 12:35 PM
 
Location: USA
19,700 posts, read 14,682,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Yankee View Post
Maybe calling it Middle Class Flight is more appropriate...

Many older cities are attractive to younger people who enjoy an urban environment and older empty nesters but the middle class family leaves. Schools are often weak to problematic and families either pony up to private school or move to suburbs; they then return as empty nesters.
Maybe calling it Middle Class Flight is more appropriate.
I think it's still mostly white Flight 'from' places like Detroit and more recently places like Ferguson. Where they end up may be a Mixed Middle class neighborhood such as mine: 'Price of admission is not raced based, it's money based'.
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Old 12-29-2014, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,893 posts, read 7,653,336 times
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Well, we can see from some of the posts in this thread that race-based white flight is still an issue, today. But, like others have said, class flight is the bigger issue. I suppose one could say that it's still white flight, if only because the middle-class is still largely white.

For me, another interesting question that has come up in this thread is: which came first, the bad neighborhood, causing the middle-class to flee, or did the middle-class start to flee because of a few small, solvable issues, causing a chain reaction that made the neighborhood go bad? (i.e. chicken and egg)
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Old 12-29-2014, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,057 posts, read 16,066,811 times
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White flight doesn't have anything to do with bad neighborhoods. It just simply is white people see a non-white and took off to the suburbs where they wouldn't have to. I'm sure it's an issue for some people, but how much of one is it for society? Hard to say. Manhattan the non-Hispanic white is a minority. There's obviously enough whites who couldn't care less about non-whites since they are the largest minority group in Manhattan which is very expensive.

White flight only causes bad neighborhoods where it leaves a vacuum, basically where there's no enough whites who don't care about living next to a minority and not enough non-white middle-class to replace them. For some place like Manhattan or San Francisco, white flight just is a non-issue today. It seems to be kind of a non-issue for Oakland as well since the white run is occurring there (whites running to neighborhoods with non-whites). Non-Hispanic white population grew 8% between 2000 and 2010 in Oakland at the same time the city shrunk by 2.2%. Since 2010 the white run to Oakland has dramatically increased although there's no census data.

Simultaneously, you have the black flight/run where blacks flee black-dominant neighborhoods in Oakland to live in the suburbs. That's kind of hard to reconcile. If you're someone who actually believes that white flight is still an issue today, expect to see Napa turn into the new ghetto. The non-Hispanic white man is almost a minority there at this point. Cupertino, less than 1/3rd white, likewise experience the white run phenomenon. The over representation of blacks in Dublin didn't prevent more whites from running to it than running from the scary blacks there. Basically, it's just really hard to see anywhere in the Bay Area where "white flight" is an issue today. There's so many minority groups with money and whites who don't care if there neighbor isn't white that it really doesn't matter. They completely dwarf the population prone to white flight.

Last edited by Malloric; 12-29-2014 at 03:14 PM..
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Old 12-29-2014, 03:18 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,929,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
White flight doesn't have anything to do with bad neighborhoods. It just simply is white people see a non-white and took off to the suburbs where they wouldn't have to. I'm sure it's an issue for some people, but how much of one is it for society? Hard to say. Manhattan the non-Hispanic white is a minority. There's obviously enough whites who couldn't care less about non-whites since they are the largest minority group in Manhattan which is very expensive.
A bit misleading, as much of Manhattan's white population is in mostly white areas, and a lot of the non-whites are mainly minority areas (Upper Manhattan, mostly). Not that many "integrated" neighborhoods.

Quote:
Basically, it's just really hard to see anywhere in the Bay Area where "white flight" is an issue today.
Bay Area population dynamics are different from many other parts of the country, particularly older parts of the northern US. Parts of the Bay Area have had large decreases of white population in the last decade: Santa Clara County -16%, San Mateo County -14%, Alameda County -13%. But I suppose it doesn't count as "white flight" as the white population decrease wasn't tied to neighbors of another race moving in.
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Old 12-29-2014, 03:20 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,929,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTaxedInNY View Post
This is positively disgusting. You're basically erasing the idea of working hard for a nice life, living in a nice area with nice people. This is akin to giving someone lung cancer because they're healthier than their smoking counterparts, and it's not fair to the smokers that your health is so much better for making better decisions.
Why? It's not a good thing for lots towns in the area to zone in a way preventing any housing for normal income people being built. Fine for existing homeowners, terrible for future homebuyers and renters. Massachusetts has an anti-snob zoning act to prevent this, it's not that effective, though I voted in favor of keeping when it was on the ballot. Besides good policy, thought it was in my self-interest.
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Old 12-29-2014, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,057 posts, read 16,066,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
A bit misleading, as much of Manhattan's white population is in mostly white areas, and a lot of the non-whites are mainly minority areas (Upper Manhattan, mostly). Not that many "integrated" neighborhoods.



Bay Area population dynamics are different from many other parts of the country, particularly older parts of the northern US. Parts of the Bay Area have had large decreases of white population in the last decade: Santa Clara County -16%, San Mateo County -14%, Alameda County -13%. But I suppose it doesn't count as "white flight" as the white population decrease wasn't tied to neighbors of another race moving in.
It's not parts of the Bay Area. There's not a single Bay Area county where the white population did anything but decrease from 2000 to 2010. Aside from maybe Hayward/Union City, it's hard to say that this white flight from the Bay Area is a problem, however. And if you look at white run in places like Cupertino or Oakland there's obviously reasons beyond race that people move places. White flight explaining the declining white population in Los Altos is rather difficult.

Welcome to Asians displacing whites, aka gentrification.

Last edited by Malloric; 12-29-2014 at 03:41 PM..
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Old 12-29-2014, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
328 posts, read 253,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wushuliu View Post
There is no 'white flight' nationwide. Part of the stupidity of the 'high crime' posts above is that they ignore the fact that crime has actually decreased by large margin since 1990. Nationwide. Nothing to do withy Giuliani, nothing to do with 'better policing'. In fact no one actually knows why. But it gets even better, not only has crime decreased nationwide but it has also decreased GLOBALLY. That's right. Globally. Even the Economist had an article about it not long ago, and that's as richie-richie centrist as you're gonna get. They have no idea why. No one does, but everyone is willing to take credit.

So how is someone going to say this and that about black people and crime when in fact the crime rate is the lowest it's been in ages nationally and globally.

There is no 'white flight' nationwide. Unless by 'flight' one means a rush BACK to the 'scary' 'inner city' where they can throw up as many condos as possible. But conveniently it's rarely mentioned that hey the 'urban' environment hasn't been 'scary' for decades.

THAT is the reason why people are moving back to the cities. Cities are no longer associated with high crime because the crime rates have dropped. But we don't hear that part of the equation. We hear the awesome 'revitalization' opportunities and 'environmental factors', etc.
Can't rep you anymore, so I just quoted this. THAT is the real reason why people are coming back.
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Old 12-29-2014, 03:31 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,929,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
It's not parts of the Bay Area. There's not a single Bay Area county where the white population did anything but decrease from 2000 to 2010. Basically what's happened is whites are getting gentrified out. They can't afford it and are leaving and being replaced by minorities.
San Francisco County had a 0% change in white population from source. Asian income is about the same as white income in the Bay Area, hispanic income a lot lower. I don't think priced out is the right word, perhaps each group has a different cost/benefit ratio. Whites, especially those not in the tech industry, may care more about being homeowners than other groups. Minority groups often look for places with significant population of other members of the same ethnicity (Long Island's Asian population is often clumped and near the Queens border).
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Old 12-29-2014, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,057 posts, read 16,066,811 times
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Bay Area Census -- San Francisco City and County

1,500 decline in non-Hispanic white population in San Francisco.

And that's basically what you would expect and what gentrification is. People with more money gradually displace people with less money. Asians have more money than whites as a demographic, which is why the Asian population in the Bay Area is displacing the white population, especially in the Peninsula/South Bay.
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