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Old 02-02-2015, 12:10 AM
 
1,528 posts, read 1,494,478 times
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I live in what was once considered an upper middle class area of Metro Detroit. Clean, efficient, great schools, nice subdivisions, great shopping centers, and safety. During the 1980's, there was a construction boom of apartments in my city. Well....big mistake!!!!!!!!!!!! A lot of people who are highly undisciplined and uneducated have moved into these apartments. I went to the corner store, and when I got out of my car, all I could hear was RAP music booming from the car next to me...AH...no thank you. I will be putting my house for sale and moving further north.

Due to the decades of whites moving out of Detroit proper, there is so much blight. Blacks have moved out of Detroit too. People want abandoned homes knocked down. Watch this interview of a Detroit woman who was interviewed after someone was murdered in the house across the street. She call for the city to knock down homes. Oh, and how many of you would want to have her as a neighbor? I think I need to move to the Upper Peninsula.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrH-TnmZEy8

Last edited by Republic of Michigan; 02-02-2015 at 12:28 AM..
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Old 02-02-2015, 11:48 AM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,953,913 times
Reputation: 1953
Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
Black Flight isn't really new though, it's just that the black areas are now reaching city limits so black areas are now expanding into the suburbs. Predominantly black areas of many cities have been losing population for a long time, but up until now, the blacks were moving mostly from near core to outer city, now it's from outer city to inner suburbs typically.

Ex the populations of Detroit's black ghetto (defined as 90%+ black)

Detroit black ghetto 1940 boundaries
1940 Population: 43,889 (41,879 blacks)
1950 Population: 59,915 (59,070 blacks)

So it wasn't losing population yet... btw this includes all metro area census tracts, the population gains mostly occurred in suburban census tracts (ex in Inkster or Royal Oak Charter Township). For just census tracts in the city the population was relatively flat (2% pop growth)

Detroit black ghetto 1950 boundaries
1950 Population: 136,527 (131,793 blacks)
1960 Population: 89,503 (87,409 blacks)
A lot of that loss is probably urban renewal.

Detroit black ghetto 1960 boundaries
1960 Population: 183,573 (175,620 blacks)
1970 Population: 132,355 (124,814 blacks)

Can you explain the constraints of this "black ghetto"? It's confusing how the pop loses 47,000 in one census, gains 94,000 the next, then loses 51,000 the next. It sounds like maybe the boundaries are moving quite a bit from one decade to the next? A screenshot would be really helpful in visualizing the data.

The black population of Detroit plateaued in 1980 with births only slightly exceeding out-migration. Full on decline began in 1990. I haven't looked into it much but it's my guess that 1970-1980 was the symbolic end of a dwindling black middle-class in Detroit. The black population of the non-Wayne County part of the metro grew by ~30,000 in the 80s but then grew by another ~75,000 in the 90s. It's my guess that this much larger number was the beginning of the exodus of a more working class, black demographic.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:11 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,953,913 times
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Relevant article on the topic from today referencing a rare family in a Brooklyn neighborhood who stayed through it all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/ny...-put.html?_r=0

It seems like their case was made more possible by the fact that they owned a house large enough that it could accommodate multiple generations with a reasonable degree of privacy.
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Old 02-02-2015, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
2,610 posts, read 3,760,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
Can you explain the constraints of this "black ghetto"? It's confusing how the pop loses 47,000 in one census, gains 94,000 the next, then loses 51,000 the next. It sounds like maybe the boundaries are moving quite a bit from one decade to the next? A screenshot would be really helpful in visualizing the data.

The black population of Detroit plateaued in 1980 with births only slightly exceeding out-migration. Full on decline began in 1990. I haven't looked into it much but it's my guess that 1970-1980 was the symbolic end of a dwindling black middle-class in Detroit. The black population of the non-Wayne County part of the metro grew by ~30,000 in the 80s but then grew by another ~75,000 in the 90s. It's my guess that this much larger number was the beginning of the exodus of a more working class, black demographic.
I was just going by the population living in census tracts that were more than 90% black at the start of one decade, and then the population living in the same census tracts a decade later.

So I'm comparing 3 different areas...

The first area gained population in the 40s (it's not a single area btw, just the sum of all 90%+ black census tracts, which aren't all contiguous)

The second area lost a lot of people in the 50s (mostly blacks since there were very few whites)

The third area lost a lot of people in the 60s (again mostly blacks)

Just go on social explorer (old version)
Social Explorer

Zoom into Detroit, click on data selection (top left), select the year, and then black population (census tracts).

You can play with the cut points so that it's easier to see.

For some reason the 1950 data isn't available (at least not to map) so you have to use this instead.
Race in Detroit, 1950 to 2010 | Remapping Debate
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:41 PM
 
1,528 posts, read 1,494,478 times
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Southfield Mi

1990 68% White 29% Black
2000 39% White 54% Black
2010 25% White 70% Black
2020 ??????????????????????????

http://doi.wayne.edu/pdf/kurt_metzge...onoct_2007.pdf

https://books.google.com/books?id=S1...hfield&f=false
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Old 02-02-2015, 11:30 PM
 
9,859 posts, read 10,110,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chh View Post
Harper woods, Michigan, went from 85% white and 10% black in just 2000 to less then half white and 45% black in a matter of 10 years. If white flight is occurring here, is it occurring in other places in the US? Does white flight pose similar problems to communities than it did in the 50's/60's?
That is a shockingly abrupt change in demographics in only a decade. I didn't think that was possible.

HARPER WOODS 2000
87.2% White 12,423
10.8% Black 1,539


HARPER WOODS 2010
51.8% White 7,374
47.6% Black 6,779

Last edited by PacoMartin; 02-02-2015 at 11:43 PM..
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Old 02-02-2015, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Chicago - Logan Square
3,396 posts, read 6,180,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
That is a shockingly abrupt change in demographics in only a decade. I didn't think that was possible.
While it is a big shift, it's important to remember that it's a very small area (less than 3 sq. miles) with a small population.
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Old 02-03-2015, 12:45 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,953,913 times
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A few things about Harper Woods -

The population declined by 19% in the 70s, by 9% in the 80s, and by 4.5% in the 90s - this was largely through declining household size although it appears that vacancy has been on the rise since the 90s.

The vacancy rate has more than tripled from 222 in 2000 to 690 so it's now around 11% (that's a lot).

Home values in Harper Woods have been crushed over the last decade losing half of their value since 2005. Speaking of which, there are 60 houses on the market right now. There are another 60 in the foreclosure process. The most expensive house on the market in Harper Woods right now is listed for around $120k and while certainly liveable hasn't been updated in decades . . . and it's a bit nicer than a lot of the other houses on the market there.

19965 Eastwood Dr, Harper Woods, MI 48225 is For Sale - Zillow

Here's a better picture of who is coming and going. The column on the left is 2000 data. The middle column is what we might expect those age cohorts to be in 2010 if everyone just aged in place and no one new moved to town. The column on the right are the actual 2010 numbers. So we can see growth in the population of 5-34 year olds and decline in the rest. Since the population stayed about the same over the decade and since there is metro wide population decline it's likely that there were declines in the white population in all age cohorts but that the growth in the black population was probably the largest in 5-34 year olds . . . families with school aged kids.

*The expected number of 15-24year olds should be 1818 not 869



This was a declining town long before black people began moving there in numbers, it probably started in the early 80s, and the coup de grace for the white population here was the Great Recession/housing bubble/foreclosure crisis not black migration.
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:13 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,953,913 times
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Another article on present day "flight" I saw in one of the other forums.

'Black flight' changing the makeup of Dallas schools | Dallas Morning News
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Old 02-04-2015, 12:28 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 2,001,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
This was a declining town long before black people began moving there in numbers, it probably started in the early 80s, and the coup de grace for the white population here was the Great Recession/housing bubble/foreclosure crisis not black migration.
IMO, this is the critical point. In earlier eras, white flight in the traditional sense of fear was much more prevalent. Today, I think the primary issue is a combination of socioeconomic disparity across races and middle class preference in terms of housing, space, and amenities.

Most of the areas susceptible to decline are middling that don't offer specific advantages that cater to middle class or more affluent preferences. The housing isn't newish with more square footage and yard space that one subset of the market favors. It doesn't contain historic gems that the other part of the market favors either. It doesn't contain more secluded subdivisions and quality suburban schools favored by the former, or the diversity and walkability favored by the latter. Over time, preferences are revealed as the current population ages and younger middle class families don't join their ranks. Prices remain stagnant or decline and more poverty is introduced because demand from those with more income has softened enough for this to occur.

If those new poor faces in the neighborhood were white rather than black, I'm same decline would occur, albeit it probably wouldn't occur quite as rapidly.

Black middle class families are making the same choices as well.
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