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Old 12-30-2014, 09:19 AM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,713,490 times
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When Motor City leaders start talking about tearing out urban freeways - you know there has been a big paradigm shift.

Detroit leaders want to lessen impact of freeways

Oh - and this effort has Billionaires backing it!!! Fantastic that Detroit is looking to shed it's past and look towards a brighter future for itself.
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Old 12-30-2014, 12:24 PM
 
409 posts, read 388,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
When Motor City leaders start talking about tearing out urban freeways - you know there has been a big paradigm shift.

Detroit leaders want to lessen impact of freeways

Oh - and this effort has Billionaires backing it!!! Fantastic that Detroit is looking to shed it's past and look towards a brighter future for itself.
Dan Gilbert, the billionaire that is referenced in the article, just put up $1.25 million to widen the I-375 exit at Lafayette. This will allow easier access to Gilbert's Greektown Casino. I don't see Gilbert being in favor of demolishing I-375 when it will make it more difficult for people to access Greektown Casino.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...p-to-lafayette
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Old 12-30-2014, 01:28 PM
 
409 posts, read 388,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Was it your goal to derail the thread with this nonsense?
Komeht, here are the threads you've started regarding urban freeway removal over the past few days. Who's really doing the derailing?

Good news urbanists - another urban freeway to bite the dust (highway, downtown) - 12-22-2014, 12:37 PM

The case for tearing down urban freeways - 12-23-2014, 11:51 AM

When you're out of money - you're forced into making smarter choices - Fortunately the DOTs are out of money - 12-24-2014, 02:57 PM

More good news on fight against Urban Freeways
Today, 12:19PM

Nice short video on why your city should consider removing its urban freeways - Today, 02:44 PM
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Old 12-30-2014, 01:43 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,713,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impala096 View Post
Komeht, here are the threads you've started regarding urban freeway removal over the past few days. Who's really doing the derailing?

Good news urbanists - another urban freeway to bite the dust (highway, downtown) - 12-22-2014, 12:37 PM

The case for tearing down urban freeways - 12-23-2014, 11:51 AM

When you're out of money - you're forced into making smarter choices - Fortunately the DOTs are out of money - 12-24-2014, 02:57 PM

More good news on fight against Urban Freeways
Today, 12:19PM

Nice short video on why your city should consider removing its urban freeways - Today, 02:44 PM
And they've generated a lot of good discussion. And, of course, no apologies for holding our cities to higher standards!

Any comment on the article - it's interesting huh?
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Old 12-30-2014, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
2,610 posts, read 3,759,792 times
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Those are functionally suburbs though. They might have been built around formerly independent town centres, and aren't totally bedroom communities (they have employment of their own) but would not be what they are today if it was not possible for residents of those cities to commute to Manhattan.

So having a freeway (and commuter rail) connecting them to Manhattan benefits them by bringing in wealthy residents who work in Manhattan. These transport links draw investment from NYC to these CT suburbs.

On the other hand, Detroit is not a suburb, and the highways going into its urban core likely drew investment away from Detroit and to its suburbs. There might have been some investment going the other direction, maybe it helped bring a few extra jobs to downtown Detroit (or maybe that only just made up for places of employment that were demolished for freeways and urban renewal in the core), but it was probably outweighed by the investment from the city moving to the suburbs (mainly housing at first).

The effect of highways on urban cores that are the regions primary employment centre and areas that were not originally designed for the car is rather different than the effect on suburbs or even satellite city type suburbs like Greenwich.

When these Detroit highways were initially built, Detroit, while it did already have some satellite job centres in Dearborn and the like, was still fairly centralized. Much of the residents living in the core, more or less the area inside Grand Boulevard, or even maybe up to Livernois/Conner/5 mile (McNichols), got around largely by transit and by foot.

Detroit's streetcar network largely served this area and not the parts of Detroit city limits further out (7 Mile, Greenfield Rd, etc). The housing stock of these core neighbourhoods was aging, but the fact that they had a competitive advantage in terms of access to jobs in the core over more far flung areas probably helped them avoid declining too much. They also meant that accessing jobs outside core areas was difficult, keeping jobs in the core and preventing them from decentralizing too much.

Now get rid of the streetcars and build freeways in the core to provide access to it not only from all the existing suburbs but also thousands upon thousands of acres of potential future suburbs, and suburbs like Warren, Livonia and Southfield are a 20-25min drive from downtown while even neighbourhoods just 2-3 miles from Downtown are a 20-25min bus ride away. This causes land values in the core to crash, and on the rural periphery near freeways to increase, encouraging new upscale suburban developments to be built.

Meanwhile the land in the core no longer has much value, and homes in the core are old and aging and becoming depreciating goods. So just like aging cars, no-ones going to put much investment into them as they get old, and the housing stock gets run down. Since the homes in individual neighbourhoods are mostly pretty uniform and of similar age, the all decline at once and you get a big influx of poverty, crime, etc. causing desirability to drop further, so that the land might even become less valuable than in the suburbs. On top of that, the freeways mean that the employment no longer needs to locate in core areas, and can locate in the suburbs instead where access to employees is just as good. Cars make for a very decentralized form of transportation, as long as you're near a freeway exit, you should be accessible to employees, since cars on freeways are fast, and you don't have to worry about complicated transfers, plus last mile issues are relatively minor.

Last edited by Poncho_NM; 01-03-2015 at 09:11 PM.. Reason: The post you replied to has been deleted
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Old 12-30-2014, 05:20 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,929,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
Those are functionally suburbs though. They might have been built around formerly independent town centres, and aren't totally bedroom communities (they have employment of their own) but would not be what they are today if it was not possible for residents of those cities to commute to Manhattan.

So having a freeway (and commuter rail) connecting them to Manhattan benefits them by bringing in wealthy residents who work in Manhattan. These transport links draw investment from NYC to these CT suburbs.
The rail connection to Manhattan is more important than the freeway connection for Grenwich, I don't think I-95 adds much for non-masochistic commuters to Manhattan. Grenwich is a significant employment district of its own, mostly finance. I-95 is more useful for travel between suburban jobs, though much of the finance jobs are near the MetroNorth station. But yea, I-95 helps Fairfield County suburban job centers, but is no help to Manhattan job centers.
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Old 12-30-2014, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
The rail connection to Manhattan is more important than the freeway connection for Grenwich, I don't think I-95 adds much for non-masochistic commuters to Manhattan. Grenwich is a significant employment district of its own, mostly finance. I-95 is more useful for travel between suburban jobs, though much of the finance jobs are near the MetroNorth station. But yea, I-95 helps Fairfield County suburban job centers, but is no help to Manhattan job centers.
Looks like 28,000 jobs for a town of 61,000. (based on top employer and top employer % of total jobs).
http://www.greenwichct.org/upload/me..._2010-2011.pdf

So not a big deal in the grand scheme of things although I guess it is noteworthy that they are mostly concentrated in one part of town which also happens to be near I-95 and the rail station.

And I'm guessing a lot of the finance jobs wouldn't be there if not for the proximity (and transportation access) to the world's most important financial centre?
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Old 12-30-2014, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
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A certain number of freeways are especially important in a city like Detroit.

It provides a quick way in and out of the city for middle class people to attend events like ballgames and casinos, as well as go to work, without dealing with the tough surface streets in the city.

People just aren't going to drive 8 miles through gang turf to get to a baseball game, concert or casino. And they won't like doing it to get to work.
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Old 12-30-2014, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,504,059 times
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Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam View Post
A certain number of freeways are especially important in a city like Detroit.

It provides a quick way in and out of the city for middle class people to attend events like ballgames and casinos, as well as go to work, without dealing with the tough surface streets in the city.

People just aren't going to drive 8 miles through gang turf to get to a baseball game, concert or casino. And they won't like doing it to get to work.
That is basically the major factor that is wrong with Detroit, and the negative factor of urban highways, it provides easy access for those living in the suburbs to get in and out easily at the expense of the inner neighborhoods that those freeways cut through.
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Old 12-30-2014, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
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Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That is basically the major factor that is wrong with Detroit, and the negative factor of urban highways, it provides easy access for those living in the suburbs to get in and out easily at the expense of the inner neighborhoods that those freeways cut through.
How does it hurt the inner city neighborhoods to have cultural and sports activities in the core of the city, that middle class people are willing to attend? Are more white knuckle suburban drivers cruising through their areas to attend an event a benefit to them?
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