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Old 01-04-2015, 04:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
The data means that 4/5 or 80% of the malls are doing just fine. That's no indication of a trend, since easily 20% of the cities are still having financial difficulties. Here for example, malls are not only doing well but in major expansion, with high-end stores being added and little or no vacancy.
Not that I care, since I avoid them, and buy almost everything online, but there are still plenty of people crowding the malls and filling up their multi-story parking garages. So much so that during holiday shopping season bus routes are changed to avoid the congestion.


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Oh, it's definitely a trend - there's a whole web site devoted to dead malls - deadmalls.com - fascinating stuff really.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
Just so I have this straight -- 1/5 of malls have high vacancies, that means 80% are HAPPILY PACKING IN DRIVERS DELIGHTED TO SPEND THEIR MONEY TO WHERE THEY'VE DRIVEN. Seems like this is less an opportunity to raze these malls are start over with "new urbanism" than to just admit that maybe the mix of stores was not right for the area. The mall owners almost certainly are ill-equipped to become developers of hip "work / life centers" where cool kids can stroll from loft like living to loft like work spaces and hang out at craft brew pubs. Far more likely that these 20% of high vacancy malls are simply suffering from a poorly thought out mix of stores or in areas where there are not now and likely never will be enough JOBS to support any kind of development be it residential / retail / commercial...

If you have a dead or dying mall in your area I would advise simply letting its owners try to make a wise economic decision. If the mall owners do an analysis that shows there enough JOBS to support a healthy economy but the mix of stores is not capturing those dollars they'll redevelop to suit the area. There are no signs that urban areas are immune from poorly planned retail malls -- Heartland Real Estate Business There is very likely LOTS more of this sort of redevelopment where an enclosed mall that had the wrong mix of poorly merchandised earring stores and such is switched over to a retail strip center where shoppers can at least buy groceries and get other needed household goods from big box retailers. If the mall owners determine there is no way to make their property attractive even to low margin retailers like grocery stores and you live nearby it almost certainly makes sense to move someplace where there at least enough jobs to support such necessary retail.
Oh, indeed, the property owners rarely have the expertise to do this well (I mean, look at the disasters they built - horrific). But with the right zoning and helpful local governments those dead and dying malls can become awesome acquisition opportunities for people who do have this expertise. It's up to the municipalities to set a high vision for what the city can and should become.
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:07 PM
 
Location: sumter
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Just too many of them in my opinion and most of them feature some the same retailers.
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:12 PM
 
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But in the end how does this help with urban centers when the business just moves further out? I mean most downtown are ghost of their former selfs. More and more even those that exist during day are vacant after dark more and more.
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by texdav View Post
But in the end how does this help with urban centers when the business just moves further out? I mean most downtown are ghost of their former selfs. More and more even those that exist during day are vacant after dark more and more.
Maybe you've been asleep for the last 10 years or so? Downtowns are roaring back in popularity all across American.
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Maybe you've been asleep for the last 10 years or so? Downtowns are roaring back in popularity all across American.
It depends on the downtown, some are doing good or improving, and some are not.
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:52 PM
 
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I can't say that i've been to a metro area that didn't have both healthy, and failing retail centers. Saying it's an epidemic afflicting mainly the rustbelt is ignorant. The Detroit area for instance has dozens of healthy malls and a couple of elite shopping centers. There are also malls that have failed but the majority of them are thriving. This is something I have seen in EVERY market.

I agree that the trend is going away from enclosed shopping centers and back toward shopping districts within CBD's and lifestyle centers, but the notion that it's harder to find waning shopping centers in the "coastal areas" is disingenuous.
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Old 01-04-2015, 06:04 PM
 
28,441 posts, read 71,029,142 times
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Default If you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
But in the end how does this help with urban centers when the business just moves further out? I mean most downtown are ghost of their former selfs. More and more even those that exist during day are vacant after dark more and more.
See the thing is the CAR HATERS don't really care that the handful of urban areas that have seen a resurgence are really the exception to development that is still very much dependent on people DRIVING to workplaces or shopping areas. The car haters are just filled with a mad/blind hatred of people moving around in personal vehicles as opposed to walking, taking "public transit" or "bicycling". The haters see every problem as an "opportunity" to get rid of cars.

Start asking LOGICAL QUESTIONS like "if a mall is razed and new live/work/retail type developments are built won't that dilute the draw of the traditional urban cores?" To the zealots this is irrelevant because in the grand CAR HATING VISION of the lunatics that desperately want these "pedestrian / public transit / bicycle" only developments REGARDLESS OF NEED they'd be happy to herd residents / workers / shoppers into these new developments the way tyrants would send those that oppose their views to the GULAGS.

Of course the folks that actually run grocery stores look at these proposals and say "what are you CRAZY? If there is no parking and only apartments / townhouse for a few hundred people we cannot profitably run a store out there". That only makes the CAR HATERS more adamant that the "retail component" of such mixed use be more along the lines of a "farmers market" or maybe even just scrap the retail altogether for some kind of "urban farm" or an equally "hippy" response to better 'stick it to the car dependent mains ".

Needless to say when folks that actually own these rare malls with high vacancy (remember fully 4/5th of the US malls are DOING FINE and not suffering from excessive vacancies...) hear such positively WHACKO proposals they understandably just decide to leave the mall boarded-up, knowing that odds are the shift in population will likely eventually make it out into the hinterland and the mall can once again be profitable when the car-centric development resumes...
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Old 01-04-2015, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,514,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
See the thing is the CAR HATERS don't really care that the handful of urban areas that have seen a resurgence are really the exception to development that is still very much dependent on people DRIVING to workplaces or shopping areas. The car haters are just filled with a mad/blind hatred of people moving around in personal vehicles as opposed to walking, taking "public transit" or "bicycling". The haters see every problem as an "opportunity" to get rid of cars.

Start asking LOGICAL QUESTIONS like "if a mall is razed and new live/work/retail type developments are built won't that dilute the draw of the traditional urban cores?" To the zealots this is irrelevant because in the grand CAR HATING VISION of the lunatics that desperately want these "pedestrian / public transit / bicycle" only developments REGARDLESS OF NEED they'd be happy to herd residents / workers / shoppers into these new developments the way tyrants would send those that oppose their views to the GULAGS.

Of course the folks that actually run grocery stores look at these proposals and say "what are you CRAZY? If there is no parking and only apartments / townhouse for a few hundred people we cannot profitably run a store out there". That only makes the CAR HATERS more adamant that the "retail component" of such mixed use be more along the lines of a "farmers market" or maybe even just scrap the retail altogether for some kind of "urban farm" or an equally "hippy" response to better 'stick it to the car dependent mains ".

Needless to say when folks that actually own these rare malls with high vacancy (remember fully 4/5th of the US malls are DOING FINE and not suffering from excessive vacancies...) hear such positively WHACKO proposals they understandably just decide to leave the mall boarded-up, knowing that odds are the shift in population will likely eventually make it out into the hinterland and the mall can once again be profitable when the car-centric development resumes...
Just like CAR LOVERS don't care what the freeways and parking lots destroy as long as it makes it easier for them to get to their neighborhood Applebee's.

See how this CAR HATERS/CAR LOVERS garbage is anti-productive and does nothing to create any dialog?
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Old 01-04-2015, 06:53 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,823,688 times
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A lot of malls got hit by consolidation in the department store industry; they'd lose anchors to consolidation, and in many cases be unable to replace them due to non-competes. For instance, King of Prussia was unable to bring in Saks Fifth Avenue due to their agreement with (at the time) Federated, which had bought some of their other anchors. KoP coped by remaking the anchor space into an upscale restaurant area, but a lot of malls failed.
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