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Old 01-14-2015, 03:07 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB1967 View Post
Of course we like our parking. Contrary to self-anointed "experts", our idea of a shopping experience is not the Soviet GUM (pronounced "Goom"). We like to load up with more than a bag with a variety of items and come and go as we please doing it.

I am glad to hear some malls can be anchored by Home Depots or Wal-Marts, although I suspect they are downscale.
I wouldn't call this one "downscale". The department store is Macy's. (I know, not super upscale, but not Kohl's either.) It has Anthropologie, White House/Black Market, some other upscale places.
Twenty Ninth Street | Directory
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Old 01-14-2015, 03:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Shopping malls are pretty inconvenient, unnecessary amount of walking and usually bad parking.

Typical suburban shopping areas with a couple big box stores next to each other and some restaurants in the same parking lot (like this one) that we have literally all over the country are very convenient and most would rather shop their than some shopping mall.
Yep the centers that have individual stores that move in and built their stores next to each other now days. Much more space to park closer to the building and no having to walk around to get something you want. Few people want waste time in malls. Between the walkers and teens; its not popular anymore really .
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Old 01-15-2015, 02:25 PM
 
28,441 posts, read 71,052,440 times
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Default Sorry the DATA does not support such conclusions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Yep the centers that have individual stores that move in and built their stores next to each other now days. Much more space to park closer to the building and no having to walk around to get something you want. Few people want waste time in malls. Between the walkers and teens; its not popular anymore really .
The original story CLEARLY SAID that only 20% of malls have vacancy issues. There are 4X more healthy more than "dying" malls.

Many people do not consider a trip to the mall "wasted time" -- the retailers that are performing well in malls understand the factors that make people feel like it is an efficient way to shop. Much of this is perception. When folks feel like there is enough staff to assist them instead of so much that it feels like folks are hovering (and thus probably too many people being paid for too few customers) or so little staff that no one can even check-out (and thus potentially so few workers that shop lifters have a field day...) the retailer looses money too.

Similarly people have been conditioned to expect "promotional pricing" just like web sites that bombard one's email with offers as well as firms that reward "frequent shoppers" with little extras. Smart retailers understand that many people like to feel things are being marked down or at least that they are earning something by their purchases like with an affinity card. Retail executives that offer neither of these incentives see revenues decline and in the most dramatic case are themselves fired.

The 5 Big Mistakes That Led to Ron Johnson’s Ouster at JC Penney | TIME.com

The above article makes an extremely important point that is also important to the discussion of what causes some malls to die --
Quote:
In retrospect, Johnson and JC Penney seem like a horrible match. All along, Johnson insisted that he absolutely adored the venerable JC Penney brand. But if he loved it so much, why was he so hell bent on dramatically changing it, rather than tweaking and gently reshaping as needed?
And it was not just the President, it was those he brought with him --
Quote:
JC Penney COO Michael Kramer voicing his distaste for the company as it was before Johnson took over. “I hated the J.C. Penney culture. It was pathetic,” Kramer said. ... Kramer is also a veteran of the Apple Store.
In trying so hard to "change" the Penney chain these outsiders had neglected to understand what worked about the existing stores, so too do those wish to impose their "upscale lifestyle center" mindset on more modest suburban areas that do not need / have money or time for such retailing concepts.

Like it or not, when one visits any of the 80% of thriving retail malls one is bombarded with an overtly consumerist experience -- the Starbucks wants you to spend $6 on a fancy beverage, the Mrs. Field want you spend at least that much are "hot out of the oven" cookies, the throbbing music from Abercrombie is not supposed to appeal to mom, but to have her leave teens on their own to shop for overpriced, overly sexy clothes, the rotating seasonal merchandise at so many stores is designed to make you feel like the stuff in your closet or around your home is out of date and you need to update things...

Not saying I agree that everyone that goes to the mall gets completely sucked in but the retailers that want to be in the mall understand how to manage the experience and frankly that is quite far from the kind of experience that firms aiming for "Family Dollar Store" or similar shoppers decide to serve (and make no mistake, though their pricing is different and the kinds of good they offer are not likely to be found at most regional malls, the executive team at Family Dollar Stores are also very much managing the whole shopper experience to maximize profits too!).

I would even argue that folks running a "small family owned business" in a traditional "walkable downtown core" are also either consciously managing the "shopper experience" or just fortunate to have lucked into a niche that resonates with the consumers that can support that store. I know a family that a owns a small hardware store in the walkable core of my town and they often laugh that the "experts" that sometimes are sent out by the upper management of the buyers coop that they belong to and the "planners" that the village sometimes sends around have no real world experience. The suggestions that make up too much of the gobbely goo spewed by those fools is far more like the nonsensical academic theories of those that would tear up perfectly fine downtown streets for a pedestrian mall and then decades later propose one-way couplets as way to revive the retail shops their earlier obsession has decimated.

Folks that instead watch the true metric of success in a market driven economy know that only by delivering what people will pay for can success be judged.
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Old 01-15-2015, 02:58 PM
 
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I don't think the 20% figure includes malls that have actually shut their doors. So add those in when comparing healthy vs dead malls. Nor are all the other 80% all necessarily "booming".
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Old 01-17-2015, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,699 posts, read 8,490,868 times
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These urbanist TOD mall retrofits are happening in Vancouver, but they're not happening to dead malls, they're happening to successful malls that are being expanded as a result of the redevelopments. Redevelopments are done by partnering with a professional developer of course, mall owners don't have the expertise so naturally they partner. Here's what that looks like here, might end up a little different in other cities, Brentwood is under construction and Oakridge is approved and I believe in sales. A key factor here, however, is the presence of high quality, high capacity public transit at both sites.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF4LLuH4J1s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKuaCflSd8E
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Old 01-17-2015, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,523,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
These urbanist TOD mall retrofits are happening in Vancouver, but they're not happening to dead malls, they're happening to successful malls that are being expanded as a result of the redevelopments. Redevelopments are done by partnering with a professional developer of course, mall owners don't have the expertise so naturally they partner. Here's what that looks like here, might end up a little different in other cities, Brentwood is under construction and Oakridge is approved and I believe in sales. A key factor here, however, is the presence of high quality, high capacity public transit at both sites.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF4LLuH4J1s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKuaCflSd8E
Vancouver and the rest of Canada is so far ahead of the US when it comes to suburban developmenting. It is so much easier for them to plan transit routes than it is for the US because of this.
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Old 03-07-2015, 12:54 PM
 
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Regarding low density suburbs, one idea I have come across is to use a defunct mall as a site for a TOD (transit orientated development). Two arguments in favor: 1. A sizable patch of land with a single owner. 2. Malls tended to be built along the main drag.

However….

With transit to downtown, and a large parking lot, wouldn't these endeavors tend to become park-and-rides? Or, with some buildings, into a weird urban/suburban hybrid?
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Old 03-12-2015, 10:47 AM
 
2,289 posts, read 1,296,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTGal View Post
Interesting development. Maybe if an enclosed mall goes defunct in the suburbs, this could be an alternative to a purpose built TOD (transit orientated development)?

That is, purpose built housing/retail/offices for a TOD. I imagine that the transit infrastructure would have to be purpose built.

Last edited by Tim Randal Walker; 03-12-2015 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,542 posts, read 8,422,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Randal Walker View Post
However….

With transit to downtown, and a large parking lot, wouldn't these endeavors tend to become park-and-rides? Or, with some buildings, into a weird urban/suburban hybrid?
What's wrong with park-and-ride?

If the goal is to reduce the amount of traffic in downtown areas, that's the only solution, no?

Transit companies have no intention of building light rail or even regular bus service to every subdivision in suburbia, if the areas are going to have transit at all, park-and-ride is the only practical solution.
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Old 03-12-2015, 05:48 PM
 
252 posts, read 262,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
True, some dying malls just need better tenants or better owners or to be rebuilt as a better mall. Though some of them make for good new urbanism projects as well.
Unless it's near an old money area and you have a high concentration of people who make good incomes, that regional mall is toast. I am in a pretty decent position financially and I don't want to pay $78 for a dress shirt. I can only imagine what happens when some ******* who makes $35k a year gets to the register.

Regional malls aren't for working people anymore. If you're not an upscale shopper, the mall is dead to you. Check out how many properties Glimcher, General Growth and Simon handed back to the lender. That's right, they just decided they didn't want to pay the mortgage anymore and they stopped paying it. In a previous generation, they would have been ashamed to do something like this. Not anymore.

Glimcher walks away from Eastland; mortgage servicer takes over mall | The Columbus Dispatch
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