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Old 01-13-2015, 08:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
You ignored what has been said about Pearl St, e.g. parking garages surrounding it, lots of university students and faculty who live closeby.

The poster was talking about density as the only factor, but Boulder is not dense by any means.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:22 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
You ignored what has been said about Pearl St, e.g. parking garages surrounding it, lots of university students and faculty who live closeby.
Why would parking garages mean the pedestrian mall is less successful? One of the objections to pedestrian only blocks here is that drivers can't park on the same street as the store. But in most busy shopping downtowns (gave a Long Island example earlier in the thread) most drivers aren't parking on the same street anyway, but street parking on a less busy block or use an off street garage or surface lot. Even the rather successful Brooklyn pedestrian mall has some big garages the next block over. The main pedestrian mall is very busy, but some adjacent blocks over are rather empty except for big garages.

It does seem for smaller cities, that college towns are more likely to have successful pedestrian malls.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
This might be a interesting reasoning on the FAILURE of making CHICAGO'S original shopping street in the Loop. A pedestrian mall on the 80s. It failed big time loosing its department stores in that era . In the mid-90s it was turned back to a traffic street an has become successful since. Michigan Ave or Magnificent Mile... took over as Chicago's première shopping street. But State Street still has the old Marshal Field iconic department store.... though as a Macy's now. The street basically has all the suburban Mall stores.... including a Target. On the National Landmark list... in former Carson Pierre Scot store building designed by Louis Sullivan. A Sears even moved back... it actually began on the street. The street looks great and is thriving again... But then all downtown Chicago is.

The short, sad life of State Street's pedestrian mall

The Malls of Downtown Chicago, Illinois | Labelscar
From your link:

The late ‘70s were marred by a legacy of white flight, urban renewal and economic disinvestment that hollowed out so many city cores. Planners hoped that by sprucing up a nine block section of State Street and allowing only pedestrian and bus traffic to pass, that part of downtown would better compete with suburban malls, the Magnificent Mile, and popular end-of-the-rail-line shopping districts in Uptown and Woodlawn.
As mentioned before, urban decay isn't going to be eliminated overnight by simply pedestrianizing it.
It was still a ghetto.
By 1996, the city had axed the pedestrian mall, returned the thoroughfare to automobile traffic and redesigned the corridor with a master plan that called for a combination of retail, residential, educational and theatrical draws. Since then, it seems, State Street has thrived. The chain store ethos of Old Navy and H&M may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but the street today makes money and routinely bustles with more pedestrians than it ever did in its pedestrian mall days.

Of course it would thrive. The master plan cleaned up the ghetto and created retail and entertainment
venues that attracted people to come there to work, shop, eat, go to school, etc. Why is that so surprising?

Edit: btw State Street was never actually a pedestrian mall.
It was a bus-only corridor with big loud obnoxious buses constantly running up and down the street at high-speeds.
That is why it failed! No one in their right mind wants to walk in the street where there are buses running unless
they want to get run over. That is not a pleasant environment to walk in.

Last edited by cisco kid; 01-13-2015 at 10:19 PM..
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Old 01-13-2015, 10:50 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Why would parking garages mean the pedestrian mall is less successful? One of the objections to pedestrian only blocks here is that drivers can't park on the same street as the store. But in most busy shopping downtowns (gave a Long Island example earlier in the thread) most drivers aren't parking on the same street anyway, but street parking on a less busy block or use an off street garage or surface lot. Even the rather successful Brooklyn pedestrian mall has some big garages the next block over. The main pedestrian mall is very busy, but some adjacent blocks over are rather empty except for big garages.

It does seem for smaller cities, that college towns are more likely to have successful pedestrian malls.
The mall has not reduced driving, which is a prime goal of many Boulder city fathers and mothers.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:58 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
From your link:
The late ‘70s were marred by a legacy of white flight, urban renewal and economic disinvestment that hollowed out so many city cores. Planners hoped that by sprucing up a nine block section of State Street and allowing only pedestrian and bus traffic to pass, that part of downtown would better compete with suburban malls, the Magnificent Mile, and popular end-of-the-rail-line shopping districts in Uptown and Woodlawn.
As mentioned before, urban decay isn't going to be eliminated overnight by simply pedestrianizing it.
It was still a ghetto.

Of course it would thrive. The master plan cleaned up the ghetto and created retail and entertainment
venues that attracted people to come there to work, shop, eat, go to school, etc. Why is that so surprising?

Edit: btw State Street was never actually a pedestrian mall.
It was a bus-only corridor with big loud obnoxious buses constantly running up and down the street at high-speeds.
That is why it failed! No one in their right mind wants to walk in the street where there are buses running unless
they want to get run over. That is not a pleasant environment to walk in.
The State Street pedestrian mall boondoggle was cold and ugly. The dull grey octagon tiles they chose added nothing. You are right though the rest of the Loop had to bounce back and more living downtown... before Stare street could bounce back. BUT STILL NOTHING IMPROVED ON THE STREET FOR ITS YEARS AS A SO CALLED MALL..
Buses in Chicago are not gas or diesel today as then fuming on State Street.... it don't stink going by with Smokey fumes. Today 10s of thousands live in that Loop now... a new residential Skyscraper is going up over the top of block 37 mall on State street as originally planed. River North EXPLOADED with residents and Streeterville , Near North areas.... continue to add residents in its Skyscraper living to new Townhouses to Lofts.

Tourist still TODAY have to see the Iconic Chicago Theater there and the Former Grand Dame that was Marshall Fields.... now a Macy's HOLDS ITS GRANDEUR.. tourist want to see. State street also has the worlds largest library built in the 90s on it. One of the oldest First surviving Skyscrapers... now a High-End Boutique Hotel.
It looks great today as having the TYPICAL SUBURBAN MALL STORES ... with Michigan Ave having the High-End Stores.

I can't get over a Target on State street today.....
Attached Thumbnails
Pedestrian-only Downtowns?-target-chicago-downtown.jpg  

Last edited by steeps; 01-14-2015 at 09:27 AM..
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Old 01-14-2015, 04:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
The mall has not reduced driving, which is a prime goal of many Boulder city fathers and mothers.

The parking garages are shared with all the businesses in the downtown area. The parking garages are not exclusive to the Pearl Street Mall and are an improvement over the acres of surface parking you see in suburban shopping malls. Many people walk or cycle to the Pearl Street Mall because the downtown area around it is urban and walkable. But beyond the downtown area Boulder is like any other sprawled out auto suburb and they have to cater to those drivers. But it does reduce driving overall.

The parking garages are designed to blend in and look almost like any other building in the historical downtown area. You might not even know it was a parking garage just by looking at it. So you don't have the eyesore of the typical parking garage or surface parking. The problem with the latter of course is they take up too much space, discourage walking and are an urban eyesore.

A parking garage in downtown Boulder
https://goo.gl/maps/75CSc

Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
The State Street pedestrian mall boondoggle was cold and ugly. The dull grey octagon tiles they chose added nothing. You are right though the rest of the Loop had to bounce back and more living downtown... before Stare street could bounce back. BUT STILL NOTHING IMPROVED ON THE STREET FOR ITS YEARS AS A SO CALLED MALL..

Yes. Simpy prohibiting cars on a street that was designed for cars is not a good way to create a pedestrian experience. An autocentric street with no cars on it just looks odd because you can tell it was obviously made for cars yet there are no cars. So it just looks like an abandoned street.

But to anyone looking at the Pearl Street Mall in Boulder OTOH it is obvious that it was designed for pedestrians.
It looks very inviting and pleasant to walk on.
Attached Thumbnails
Pedestrian-only Downtowns?-bwt_pearlstmall.jpg  
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:00 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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^^Very few people walk or bike to the Pearl St. Mall. You may think you know all about it from what you read in urban mags, but I have lived in Boulder County for 33 years now.
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
^^Very few people walk or bike to the Pearl St. Mall. You may think you know all about it from what you read in urban mags, but I have lived in Boulder County for 33 years now.
That seems odd given how Boulder is known for its cycling culture and downtown Boulder seems to be one of
the few places that is actually walkable and bikable. Do people live in downtown Boulder or is it a business-
only district? If the latter that would explain the lack of walking to the Pearl Street Mall. The lack of mixed uses would be
a major flaw and make the downtown area little more than a glorified suburban shopping mall. Too bad.
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:32 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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It is very expensive to live near downtown, and it isn't particularly close to the university. Undergrads like to live near the uni, as does anyone who goes there and doesn't have a car. There's some housing immediately north of the mall, but the area to the south is business district for several blocks. Students like to live on "The Hill" as it is closer to the University.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bo...393b7ca01b8058
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
That seems odd given how Boulder is known for its cycling culture and downtown Boulder seems to be one of
the few places that is actually walkable and bikable. Do people live in downtown Boulder or is it a business-
only district? If the latter that would explain the lack of walking to the Pearl Street Mall. The lack of mixed uses would be
a major flaw and make the downtown area little more than a glorified suburban shopping mall. Too bad.
The other flaw is the assumption that the downtown area all by itself can generate all the pedestrian traffic needed. One of the reasons why Chicago's State street failed was because it was difficult to drive to and not everyone wanted to use public transit to get there. Two big groups were excluded from state street. One group are tourist who drove into town(often the best way to travel if you are coming from some rural area) and the other was suburban visitors who didn't want to be dependent on Metra.
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