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Old 01-18-2015, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,528,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam View Post
It takes me 20 minutes to drive from my house in Lawrenceville section of Pittsburgh to my job in New Kensington.

It would take an hour ride on 2 buses by public transport.

The main difference is that the bus stops every 30 feet in like 8 different towns between here and there while the private car trip uses an expressway route driving at 55 mph plus.
That makes sense, you are making quite a reverse trip that tends to go against the flow of traditional commuting. Is there a lot of people who make that same reverse commute?
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Old 01-18-2015, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Depends on what you mean by lots of people take. I needed to go from the central west side of town to the far south east side of town. On each leg of the route the bus or train could be quite crowded, so yeah lots of people take the route but few people where heading from my starting point to my destination. A long time ago there was an more direct route but that direct route was an bad mismatch for the EL system and so the route was changed and even with the more direct route the time it took was about the same since that train is an bit slower and need to make almost as many stops.

The distance was about 17 miles but that 17 miles has 9 stops on one EL line and 12 on the other assuming about 1 min and 30 seconds per station for loading and unloading you get 31.5 mins alone just for train stops!!

A car would be going 55+ miles an hour the whole route. The green line can't go that fast because it is elevated(it would shake it's structure too much). The Blue and Red lines can barely approach that speed, because the train would be flying into the next station and so the EL rarely travels at it's maximum speed of about 55 miles and hour. It probably averages about 20 miles an hour when you count in stops. The non stop direct nature of the car often trumps public transit.
That tends to make sense, that is basically a cross town style commute. Though Chicago could use a loop rail line that bypasses downtown to make it faster for people to go from the southside to the westside or westside to the northside or whatever.
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Old 01-18-2015, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
It will never be on par with driving unless you cherry pick the route. Those stops add up. From the link the Car is only 16 mins faster which isn't much gain and is much more expensive than public transit. However in most places the car isn't going to cost you $36 a trip extra and trains don't run faster outside of rush.
$36 a trip? What train system are you using that costs that much per trip?
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Old 01-18-2015, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,542 posts, read 8,424,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That makes sense, you are making quite a reverse trip that tends to go against the flow of traditional commuting. Is there a lot of people who make that same reverse commute?
There are a lot of employers in New Kensington and the adjacent communities- Hospitals, Penn State, a major shopping center Pittsburgh Mills,facilities owned by Alcoa, PPG, Allegheny Ludlum and other industrial concerns.

The mall has only been out there for a dozen years, but the rest have been in the Allegheny Valley for many decades.

I don''t see how going out there is "untraditional".


Actually, a transit commute between New Ken and Pittsburgh would take longer, the traffic is a lot heavier going southbound on 28 in the morning.
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Old 01-18-2015, 08:48 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,859,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkmatechamp13 View Post


Not necessarily. Depending on the transit system, you might have 24/7 service, with relatively frequent service even during off-peak hours. The Lexington Avenue Express runs every 2 minutes during rush hour, and even in the middle of the night, you have 10 minute headways along Lexington Avenue (albeit local-only service). Plus bus lines operating on the surface as well.

Real world. In my town only 2 rail lines are 24/7 and they drop down to about 30 mins wait time per train at night. Most bus routes stop after 10 p.m. leaving only an token of service. Not to mention low service on weekends. Very few tranist systems work at all hours and even worse who the heck wants to be walking several blocks at late night. Might as well put on a sign "Rob me!!!".


Quote:
Now granted, that's often not the case in many parts of the country (or even many neighborhoods in NYC), but it's not like transit is only practical in some utopian society.
Outside of certain heavly used routes at certain times transit is usually not the most practical way to carry people or stuff.

Quote:
The system might be hub-and-spoke with a few circumferential lines thrown in to serve the types of trips you described.
Still have the problems of stops.
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Old 01-18-2015, 08:56 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,859,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That tends to make sense, that is basically a cross town style commute. Though Chicago could use a loop rail line that bypasses downtown to make it faster for people to go from the southside to the westside or westside to the northside or whatever.
Bypassing downtown would not make it faster. In fact driving takes about the same route the EL does. There are some trips for which an bypass could be useful like say from the north west side to the south west side but for that trip nope. The only time the EL stands an chance against the car is during the height of rush hour, otherwise nope the automobile is faster.
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Old 01-18-2015, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,528,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam View Post
There are a lot of employers in New Kensington and the adjacent communities- Hospitals, Penn State, a major shopping center Pittsburgh Mills,facilities owned by Alcoa, PPG, Allegheny Ludlum and other industrial concerns.

The mall has only been out there for a dozen years, but the rest have been in the Allegheny Valley for many decades.

I don''t see how going out there is "untraditional".


Actually, a transit commute between New Ken and Pittsburgh would take longer, the traffic is a lot heavier going southbound on 28 in the morning.
The traditional commute would be towards Pittsburgh, not away. Though if there is that much centralized commuting towards New Kensignton, maybe that is a sign that this town basically needs its own transit system for all those commuting towards it.
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Old 01-18-2015, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,528,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Bypassing downtown would not make it faster. In fact driving takes about the same route the EL does. There are some trips for which an bypass could be useful like say from the north west side to the south west side but for that trip nope. The only time the EL stands an chance against the car is during the height of rush hour, otherwise nope the automobile is faster.
Rush hour is when most people are commuting. That makes sense to have transit that is at its peak during rush hour. Though I don't see how bypassing downtown wouldn't make a commute better on the EL is one was trying to bypass downtown anyway.
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Old 01-18-2015, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,542 posts, read 8,424,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
The traditional commute would be towards Pittsburgh, not away. Though if there is that much centralized commuting towards New Kensignton, maybe that is a sign that this town basically needs its own transit system for all those commuting towards it.
The New Kensington area employers aren't centralized within New Ken at all. There is a hospital in downtown New Ken, Penn State is up on the hill, Pgh Mills is half a mile as the crow flies but a 3 mile drive to Frazer Township, PPG is just across the river from NK in Creighton.

Things are spread out throughout the urban area, makes the entire process of transit difficult at best.

And all of the employers run on different schedules, industrial, retail and medical facilities all start and stop at different times.

The transit dream works when virtually everyone works within a small geographic space and works from 8 to 4, or 9 to 5.
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Old 01-18-2015, 10:19 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,859,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Rush hour is when most people are commuting. That makes sense to have transit that is at its peak during rush hour. Though I don't see how bypassing downtown wouldn't make a commute better on the EL is one was trying to bypass downtown anyway.
It would make no difference. I was on the west side. I needed to head east past state street and far south. It would make no difference where I traveled east. The only way the EL would work better than as car is if it ran at an angle to the south east and just happened to have stops near me and near my destination and given how slow/ how many stops a train has, if I so much as had to get an bus on my end to get to this line, it would be game over for the EL in terms of time.


I was not trying to bypass downtown. It just was not my ultimate destination. It was just an thru point and an important transfer point. The problem is that people commute at all hours not just rush. I have had to be places at 4 a.m. or run into situations where the train or bus isn't available until too late because I needed to start the commute at 6 a.m. but the train isn't running yet.
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