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Old 01-19-2015, 07:12 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,581,357 times
Reputation: 33059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
The writer of this op piece has no idea what they are talking about.
The NW Corridor is not getting a BRT INSTEAD of a train, the election was clearly for both.

What people in the NW Corridor should be upset about is that they are getting a VERY watered down version of BRT. A well designed BRT system would be much faster than the commuter rail that is proposed. But instead they are getting neither.
Do see these previous posts of mine,complete with links:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
RTD Refinancing Opens New Possibilities For Rail To Longmont | KUNC
"Currently, Longmont is at the end of the proposed Northwest Rail Line which will travel north from Denver through Louisville and Boulder. RTD has said with current funding, the Northwest Rail Line will be completed to Longmont by 2044 at the earliest."

By ghost train, that person meant it doesn't exist. I will likely be dead by then. (I will be 95 years old in 2044.) My oldest daughter will be 60.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
Good for her! Now back to the "Light Rail"

It was never going to be light rail. It was going to be heavy rail, along the BNSF tracks.

Here's an early article, from 2007.
Fix in works on FasTracks rail holdup - Boulder Daily Camera

Here comes trouble:
Transit plan tax deficit forecast - Boulder Daily Camera
FasTracks expansion faces new obstacle - Boulder Daily Camera
RTD to hear options on FasTracks dilemma - Boulder Daily Camera

Running short on money:
FasTracks options: Pay more or get less, board is told - Boulder Daily Camera
Poll finds support for FasTracks tax hike - Boulder Daily Camera
Mayors still looking for FasTracks funds - Boulder Daily Camera

Not going to ask for more:
RTD board nixes Nov. tax election - Boulder Daily Camera

Trying again:
RTD lays out four tax-hike options for FasTracks - Boulder Daily Camera
RTD staff propose additional 0.2% sales tax for FasTracks - Boulder Daily Camera

Not gonna do it:
Denver-area voters won't see FasTracks sales-tax vote in November - Boulder Daily Camera

The other shoe starts to drop:
Plan for rail to Denver's northwest suburbs might be replaced by bus service - Boulder Daily Camera

Pushing back to 2024 and Louisville's response:
No-train option for FasTracks a non-starter in Louisville - Boulder Daily Camera

"Hybrid" system (rail + BRT) proposed
RTD gets cool reaction to proposed rail to Westminster, buses to Longmont - Boulder Daily Camera
RTD board gives tentative OK for "hybrid" option for northwest corridor - Boulder Daily Camera

Unanticipated problems:
RTD stunned by BNSF's charge for use of northwest rail lines - Boulder Daily Camera

We're going to do it:
RTD vows to finish Northwest Rail line beyond the Longmont leg - Boulder Daily Camera

Let's "study" it some more:
U.S. 36 cities balk at new RTD study — and its price tag - Boulder Daily Camera
"That means FasTracks may not be built for the northwest corridor until 2044."
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
Please provide at least one link to that. That's certainly not what I, as a resident of the NW corridor, have been hearing.

This article says something entirely different:
Northwest Rail advocates look for 'fresh start' on RTD commuter train - Boulder Daily Camera
Mayors and council members from Longmont to Boulder to Louisville said a "hybrid" solution put forth by the Regional Transportation District -- consisting of bus rapid transit combined with phased rail -- was too vague and too rushed to prevail with voters in November.

So does this article:
No-train option for FasTracks a non-starter in Louisville - Colorado Hometown Weekly
High-ranking officials from the Regional Transportation District got an earful from residents and elected leaders in Louisville Wednesday, Feb. 29, on the future of commuter rail in the northwest corridor. . . . Councilman Jay Keany said an option being considered by RTD to nix a train line between Denver and Longmont in favor of bus service makes Louisville and surrounding communities feel like the "ugly stepchild" in a metro area that has been promised rail transit for the past eight years. . . . Mayor Bob Muckle said he sympathized with RTD's financial struggles but he said a bus rapid transit, even with fixed stations and rail-like amenities, wouldn't work in Louisville. . . . He said Highway 42 has no capacity for additional dedicated bus lanes and much of the city's planning for its downtown has been predicated on a train depot being built aside the tracks that run through town.

RTD cannot get away with such a lame excuse as the NW communities could not decide on the two technologies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
The NW corridor of FasTracks is to be completed in 2042, if at all. You are correct that funding is the issue, and the RTD wisely decided not to ask for a tax increase last year. BRT is being considered instead.

RTD officials remain committed to completing FasTracks' Northwest Corridor - Longmont Times-Call
RTD staff recommends rail to Church Ranch, bus rapid transit to Boulder, Longmont - The Denver Post
We are likely to never get a train in my lifetime. The writer of the article knows exactly what he's talking about.
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
14,697 posts, read 8,483,912 times
Reputation: 29394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adi from the Brunswicks View Post
Atlanta's public transit seriously sucks. All one can do effectively with Marta is Airport to City. I challenge you, try taking PT from Alpharetta to Peachtree center for a Sunday afternoon game.
Houston's is the same way. Our transit system is so inefficient that people are forced to drive if they want to get anywhere in a timely manner. Our city is very spread out, with an area of 600 sq miles for Houston proper, along with many outlying suburbs that residents commute from to get to work in the city each day. Many residents drive 1+ hours each way to get to work due to traffic backups on our so called "freeways." If one tries to take the bus, it would easily double that commute time with all the stops and transfers a trip would take, and of course the Houston bus system only services the Houston city limits and not the suburbs.
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:43 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,194,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
We are likely to never get a train in my lifetime. The writer of the article knows exactly what he's talking about.
The writer of the op piece is implying that we are getting a bus instead of the train we were promised.
Anyone that voted on the transit bill in 2004 realizes that the NW Corridor was to get TWO modes, BRT and a train.
The bus is NOT a replacement for the train, but part of the original plan.

What people should be upset with is that we are not getting true BRT.
If US 36/119 Corridor got a true BRT system, the train would be totally unnecessary.

Last edited by Eddyline; 01-19-2015 at 08:14 PM..
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,047 posts, read 10,437,354 times
Reputation: 15678
The purpose of any Public Transportation System is NOT to, uh, transport the public.

The purpose of any Public Transportation System is to provide high paying unionized jobs with gold-plated pensions & Cadillac health care, whose members' Union Bosses reliably contribute to the re-election campaigns of elected representatives.

If any of the public are actually, uh, transported somewhere, all the better. But that is not its primary purpose.
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Old 01-19-2015, 08:34 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
We are likely to never get a train in my lifetime. The writer of the article knows exactly what he's talking about.
From what I remember reading earlier about the project, the BRT was always planned as a separate project. Not going to search for old articles, but its wikipedia article says the same.

FasTracks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Original project description:

In 2004, the citizens of this region approved this multi-billion dollar expansion plan to build out 122 miles of new commuter rail and light rail, 18 miles of bus rapid transit service, new parking spaces, 31 new Park-n-Rides and 57 new transit stations, and redirect bus service to better connect the eight-county district.

http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/media/u...tSheet2013.pdf

The only Bus Rapid Transit project is the one to Boulder (which is roughly 18 miles to Denver), so it must have been planned originally. The bus is not a replacement to the canceled rail, it's just the project in Boulder that survived.

Last edited by nei; 01-19-2015 at 09:08 PM..
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Old 01-19-2015, 08:58 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,581,357 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
From what I remember reading earlier about the project, the BRT was always planned as a separate project. Not going to search for old articles, but its wikipedia article says the same.

FasTracks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Original project description:

In 2004, the citizens of this region approved this multi-billion dollar expansion plan to build out 122 miles of new commuter rail and light rail, 18 miles of bus rapid transit service, new parking spaces, 31 new Park-n-Rides and 57 new transit stations, and redirect bus service to better connect the eight-county district.

The only Bus Rapid Transit project is the one to Boulder (which is roughly 18 miles to Denver), so it must have been planned originally. The bus is not a replacement to the canceled rail, it's just the project in Boulder that survived.
Denver to Boulder is 29 miles via the BRT route. So somewhere along the line (pun intended) they added 11 miles of BRT and postponed the train about 35 years.
Google
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:19 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,194,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
Denver to Boulder is 29 miles via the BRT route. So somewhere along the line (pun intended) they added 11 miles of BRT and postponed the train about 35 years.
Google
The eleven miles from Federal & US36 to Downtown Denver was not part of FasTracks BRT improvements since it had already been upgraded to add HOV lanes.

Boulder to Denver has had good bus service since the 1960s. To get Boulder County voters to vote for a major tax increase, they needed to offer more than just a nicer bus, so commuter rail was added to the proposal and extended to Longmont with stations in Louisville and Lafayette. This was in addition to the bus route being upgraded to BRT. Anyone who can read a map would realize the existing rail lines is much longer distance wise and has almost 30 at grade road crossings. The train was projected to take 50% longer to get from Boulder to Denver, than a well done BRT system.

The irony is that Boulder will not get neither a train nor a well done BRT system.
But instead of insisting that the BRT be done correctly, many can only whine about the loss of the choo-choo train.

Makes me wonder how many transit systems have been seriously compromised by local politics?

Last edited by Eddyline; 01-19-2015 at 09:41 PM..
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Northern Maine
9,776 posts, read 14,950,949 times
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Public transportation exists where it is not possible provide adequate parking for private vehicles. It's that simple.
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:54 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,959,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
The eleven miles from Federal & US36 to Downtown Denver was not part of FasTracks BRT improvements since it had already been upgraded to add HOV lanes.

Boulder to Denver has had good bus service since the 1960s. To get Boulder County voters to vote for a major tax increase, they needed to offer more than just a nicer bus, so commuter rail was added to the proposal and extended to Longmont with stations in Louisville and Lafayette. This was in addition to the bus route being upgraded to BRT. Anyone who can read a map would realize the existing rail lines is much longer distance wise and has almost 30 at grade road crossings. The train was projected to take 50% longer to get from Boulder to Denver, than a well done BRT system.

The irony is that Boulder will not get neither a train nor a well done BRT system.
But instead of insisting that the BRT be do correctly, many can only whine about the loss of the choo-choo train.

Makes me wonder how many transit systems have been seriously compromised by local politics?
That makes sense. Except the rail line doesn't look much longer in distance:

Project Map

The Boulder to Longmont section of the rail line is about 13 miles, the total length to Longmont is listed as 41 miles, so maybe around 18 miles; about the same as BRT. The rail line doesn't really go to downtown Boulder nor the University (university tend to be big draws for transit ridership); it skims it, at the closest it's at least 1.25 miles to the east, an inconvenient walk. Most people using the train to get to Boulder would have to take an additional bus ride or get picked up, the train station would mostly be a park and ride with its surroundings not much of a destination in itself. US-36 approaches the center of town rather closely, and then the bus could run on local streets the rest of the way. The bus looks like it would be more useful here than a train, and drivers who want the park and ride could use one of the US-36 stations. The rail would however give the center of Louisville a stop, while the bus would skim Louisville.

Often rail goes very close to downtowns, but maybe that's the case more in the east when a higher portion of the growth was pre-car. Perhaps that railroad was always a freight railroad so there was no reason to center the population around the train? From what was posted before, the main added cost was BNSF refusing to sell the track rights at an affordable price. Massachusetts has bought a number of rail lines for better control of passenger rail, the cost wasn't that high probably because there's not as much heavy freight rail use.
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:10 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,581,357 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
The eleven miles from Federal & US36 to Downtown Denver was not part of FasTracks BRT improvements since it had already been upgraded to add HOV lanes.

Boulder to Denver has had good bus service since the 1960s. To get Boulder County voters to vote for a major tax increase, they needed to offer more than just a nicer bus, so commuter rail was added to the proposal and extended to Longmont with stations in Louisville and Lafayette. This was in addition to the bus route being upgraded to BRT. Anyone who can read a map would realize the existing rail lines is much longer distance wise and has almost 30 at grade road crossings. The train was projected to take 50% longer to get from Boulder to Denver, than a well done BRT system.

The irony is that Boulder will not get neither a train nor a well done BRT system.
But instead of insisting that the BRT be done correctly, many can only whine about the loss of the choo-choo train.

Makes me wonder how many transit systems have been seriously compromised by local politics?
What's your source for all this?
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