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Old 01-21-2015, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,063 posts, read 102,785,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
We are discussing two different things. I'm discussing the total cost of auto ownership as it pertains to the decision to commute by private car or public transit. You seem to be discussing the cost of a single trip from point a to point b.

My initial comment was in response to the fact more people are driving because gas is cheaper and I pointed out that the cost of gas is only one of many costs of auto ownership and operation.

But I stand by my comment that I can not think of a single cost that is not lower if you drive less.
Again, I'm looking at the total cost of auto ownership, not the cost of one single trip.

You pay less on a car loan if you drive less, because you need to replace your car less often therefore pay less for the cost of ownership (including interest on loan, if any).

I realize car registration is different in every state, which is why I added (Colorado).
But most states do charge based on age or value of car.

I'm not really interested in your personal driving record, but statistically, the more you drive, the more likely you are to get a ticket (speeding, parking or DUI).
Yes, you always like to divert. I was responding to someone who said transit might be cheaper even if you own a car. The only way that can be is if you have to pay for parking.

Your comments on loans are a true attempt to deflect. All those links from AAA and such about cost per mile to drive ass*ume you are driving a late-model car you have purchased on credit.
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Old 01-21-2015, 02:44 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,100,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
Yes, you always like to divert. I was responding to someone who said transit might be cheaper even if you own a car. The only way that can be is if you have to pay for parking.
I don't think those are separate issues. Driving lots of miles makes your car wear down eventually as I said here:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/38113818-post220.html

That's not the only way. The other way is if your commute is very long, especially with gas prices from a year back (who know what they'll be five years from now?). If your commute is 36 miles each way, that's about 17,000 miles / year. Depending on mpg and gas price, that's about $1500 / year in gas. The additional miles means your car isn't going to last as long as it would otherwise, how much added cost that is hard to estimate quickly. Also some roads here are tolled, though there's often an alternate.
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Old 01-21-2015, 02:50 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,199,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
Yes, you always like to divert. I was responding to someone who said transit might be cheaper even if you own a car. The only way that can be is if you have to pay for parking.

Your comments on loans are a true attempt to deflect. All those links from AAA and such about cost per mile to drive ass*ume you are driving a late-model car you have purchased on credit.

No attempt to divert or deflect, we are clearly discussing two different things.
I have no idea what your AA link says, but I said if you drive more, you pay more for interest.
Again I am discussing the total cost of auto ownership over time, not the cost of a single trip from point a to point b.
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Old 01-21-2015, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,063 posts, read 102,785,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I don't think those are separate issues. Driving lots of miles makes your car wear down eventually as I said here:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/38113818-post220.html

That's not the only way. The other way is if your commute is very long, especially with gas prices from a year back (who know what they'll be five years from now?). If your commute is 36 miles each way, that's about 17,000 miles / year. Depending on mpg and gas price, that's about $1500 / year in gas. The additional miles means your car isn't going to last as long as it would otherwise, how much added cost that is hard to estimate quickly. Also some roads here are tolled, though there's often an alternate.
I'm not having much luck finding stats on average commutes, but only a small fraction of workers have these mega-commutes.
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Old 01-21-2015, 02:54 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,100,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
I'm not having much luck finding stats on average commutes, but only a small fraction of workers have these mega-commutes.
I didn't say they were common, I was trying to give another way that transit could be cheaper. Or at least where wear and tear on a car is an important extra cost.
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Old 01-21-2015, 07:03 PM
 
12,320 posts, read 15,238,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
Nitpick #2-the bolds are all gross generalizations. In the Denver area, the entire RTD voted for the Fastracks proposal; it couldn't have been built otherwise, and the suburbanites outnumber the city residents by about 4.5 to 1. Many people out here in the boonies, 25 miles from Denver, take transit to work, either locally or into Denver. Who does take transit if they don't want to? Only someone w/o a car who can't afford to buy one.

I don't recall hearing from any rural posters in this thread.
There actually is rural mass transit, mostly dial a ride services for the elderly. Also Amtrak, Greyhound, even most outlying station on a commuter rail line. Of course, it is not as useful or convenient.
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
2,610 posts, read 3,769,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I don't think those are separate issues. Driving lots of miles makes your car wear down eventually as I said here:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/38113818-post220.html

That's not the only way. The other way is if your commute is very long, especially with gas prices from a year back (who know what they'll be five years from now?). If your commute is 36 miles each way, that's about 17,000 miles / year. Depending on mpg and gas price, that's about $1500 / year in gas. The additional miles means your car isn't going to last as long as it would otherwise, how much added cost that is hard to estimate quickly. Also some roads here are tolled, though there's often an alternate.
How much would transit cost at that distance though? In many cities it would be quite a bit more than for a 5 mile commute (which is fair imo). In Toronto it would probably cost at least $3000 a year for 36 miles each way.
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:15 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
How much would transit cost at that distance though? In many cities it would be quite a bit more than for a 5 mile commute (which is fair imo). In Toronto it would probably cost at least $3000 a year for 36 miles each way.
LIRR monthly is $325 from my parent's area (36-40 miles). But with gas at prices a year ago + wear and tear on a car, the monthly driving cost may be more that.
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:48 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
The USA isn't unique in geography, climate or most anything else tangible that stops it from investing in transit. It's unique in mindset; in the great riches and industrial success following WWII (the rest of the industrialized world was bombed out) that allowed a burgeoning middle class buy personal automobiles at a rate that was unfathomable by the rest of the world. We invested in roads, dismantled train service, and left our transit systems stagnant. And from that history, we are now here, getting poorer as a much larger nation with a single mode of transportation for at least 85% of Americans. A country built at a very low density with only the automobile in mind (first thought at least), talking about how to throw in another option that's largely unpopular (due to inexperience, the idea of change, cost, preference, etc.).
Yes, as you said transit isn't going to work well for the majority of Americans. There are plenty of areas where in any practical terms transit will be mostly useless. Whenever I go back to my parent's neighborhood I see infrequent buses. Sure, you could call the transit system inadequate. But most buses run rather empty. There's not much that can be improved, local buses can't cover enough and compete badly time-wise, so few take them. There is no way to have adequate transit except in a few corridors. There are trains, but they are mostly from transit to the city with some exceptions. Efforts to improve local downtowns, make areas more pedestrian or bicycle friendly could relevant but local transit not much. Further west, in denser Nassau County, local bus transit does get some use though it's still relatively minor it's practical enough it's useful to a significant minority some would find it difficult to rely on a car others who would prefer not to drive.

While the US is spread out more than most developed countries and focus its infrastructure on transit less, many other countries have a rather low transit commute share. France, excluding the Paris region, has a transit commute share of 7.5%

Insee - Territoire - Une illustration des usages du recensement : les dplacements domicile-travail

Not that familiar with the situation, but my guess is decentralized employment combined with moderate residential densities led most to drive. Note walking has a much higher share.
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:49 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,868,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
If an area had neglected transit for so long to the point that it is nonexistent, then how would it be fixed and made more convenient? As it is now we have places where the commute might be an hour or more in gridlock traffic, yet the transit system is so neglected that it would take 3 hours and a few changes and a long walk at each end. Therefore people continue to say driving is more convenient even though it wouldn't be if the transit system was up to par.
Transit will almost never be as convenient as driving. The reason why it takes 3 hours is because in order to be useful transit must make stops to allow people to get on and off. The route is not direct because few people are starting from where you are starting and ending where you are ending. Your co-workers are not usually your neighbors an so their is likely no direct route from your home to work(nor can there be since everyone who is in that gridlock is going somewhere else).

The car allows greater control of the time at which you must depart, who you sit next to or share the vehicle with and frankly just having an seat is an major advantage. The only times i can think of that are easier on transit are is there is no parking at your destination and there are relatively few places where parking is impossible. Unlike many European countries the US is an large country with lots of land. Only in a few places land values are so high as to make parking an problem. IMHO, anyone who prefers transit over the car is someone who has never been packed in an bus(or train) and had to stand on aching feet after work. Or had an sweating drug addict sit right next to you. Or has had their sense of smell violated by the stench of human waste or an homeless person while riding the bus.
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