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Old 02-04-2015, 06:05 PM
 
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Thought about it earlier today.

If I didn't have a vehicle, I would feel trapped. Suffocated.

I know lots of people want to live as close to work as possible, it makes sense in terms of efficiency, but I don't think I could do it. It's too close to living at work. Heck, I didn't even like living on campus in college.

I grew up in Wyoming. Cars and Trucks WERE my childhood. Driving them is one of the coolest things about being an adult. Take that away from me, and my childhood dreams die.

Taking transit kills the dreams of every 5-year old wearing a "Monster Truckin'" shirt.
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Old 02-04-2015, 06:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandalorian View Post
Thought about it earlier today.

If I didn't have a vehicle, I would feel trapped. Suffocated.

I know lots of people want to live as close to work as possible, it makes sense in terms of efficiency, but I don't think I could do it. It's too close to living at work. Heck, I didn't even like living on campus in college.

I grew up in Wyoming. Cars and Trucks WERE my childhood. Driving them is one of the coolest things about being an adult. Take that away from me, and my childhood dreams die.

Taking transit kills the dreams of every 5-year old wearing a "Monster Truckin'" shirt.
Taking transit and not having a car aren't the same thing. I have a car. I just don't use it to go to work.

You can have a 15% transit mode share for people going to work but only 5% of households don't have cars.
You can also live 30 miles from your job and still take the train to work.
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
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Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
I got it. My point was that transit ridership is a lot more than just "who is going to work".
I don't think that fact escapes most people. It's the same way most people understand that CBD employment numbers do not reflect the daily total of people that enter a CBD on any given workday. However, those numbers are useful for comparing cities to one another.

The real question is what percentage of total travel in the United States does transit account for. The answer is "not much." According to the APTA, there were approximately 10.3 billion unlinked passenger trips in the U.S. in 2013, which still accounts for a very small percentage of travel in general (and that number is obviously higher than the actual number of transit "trips" since someone taking two buses to get to a destination is not going to count each leg as a separate "trip").
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I don't think that fact escapes most people . . .

The real question is what percentage of total travel in the United States does transit account for. The answer is "not much."
I think it does escape a lot of people. Even transportation professionals. Because a lot of walking trips and even cycling trips are only really possible in a multi-modal environment. The mere presence of transit engenders walking trips.

According to the NHTS walking, cycling, and transit account for around 20% of all trips. Given the lack of infrastructure and the overall lack of investment in those modes over the last 60+ years a number that high is actually surprising.

Saying "Americans don't walk or take transit" is like underfunding a school and then feigning surprise at declining enrollment. It's a self-fulfilling proposition.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:14 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
Taking transit and not having a car aren't the same thing. I have a car. I just don't use it to go to work.

You can have a 15% transit mode share for people going to work but only 5% of households don't have cars.
You can also live 30 miles from your job and still take the train to work.
I live 23 miles from work and take the bus, leaving 3 cars at home. This morning it was standing room only at 5:30. Probably 90% of the people were on a smartphone or other device, while the rest were napping. I love driving and take several roadtrips of 2,000+ miles a year and many shorter ones but when it comes to commute traffic I have had enough of that.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
I think it does escape a lot of people. Even transportation professionals. Because a lot of walking trips and even cycling trips are only really possible in a multi-modal environment. The mere presence of transit engenders walking trips.
I was referring specifically to the idea that transit commuters = all transit riders. You think most transit professionals do not understand that the number of transit users exceeds the number of transit commuters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
According to the NHTS walking, cycling, and transit account for around 20% of all trips. Given the lack of infrastructure and the overall lack of investment in those modes over the last 60+ years a number that high is actually surprising.
You mean around 17% (at most). 83.4% of all trips are made in an automobile.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
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Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
It doesn't surprise me. Most of this country has horrible mass transit. There are still plenty of people in the US that don't even have the option to take passenger rail service to work. That's why the number is so high.
Try "bus service"!

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam View Post
There are a lot of employers in New Kensington and the adjacent communities- Hospitals, Penn State, a major shopping center Pittsburgh Mills,facilities owned by Alcoa, PPG, Allegheny Ludlum and other industrial concerns.

The mall has only been out there for a dozen years, but the rest have been in the Allegheny Valley for many decades.

I don''t see how going out there is "untraditional".


Actually, a transit commute between New Ken and Pittsburgh would take longer, the traffic is a lot heavier going southbound on 28 in the morning.
^^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
The traditional commute would be towards Pittsburgh, not away. Though if there is that much centralized commuting towards New Kensignton, maybe that is a sign that this town basically needs its own transit system for all those commuting towards it.
You are very unfamiliar with common geography of most, if not many, urban metros in the interior Middle Atlantic, Great Lakes, and Midwest. What I_Like_Spam is describing is very typical industrial construction patterns in these metros, and date back to the last half of the 19th and early 20th centuries. Lots of cities at that time had relatively small urban cores, although they were expanding, and large peripheral areas that were undeveloped. They were also mostly surrounded by farming areas with occasional market towns. 19th and early 20th century century industrialists tended to build their factory sites either along creeks and rivers for water power or along canals, navigable rivers, and lakes in order to facilitate shipping of bulk products like iron ore or grains. Consequently, all kinds of industrial sites were sprinkled throughout the cities and also grew up outside the cities. Most of the workers in these lived within walking distance, and small commercial areas grew up nearby as well. In the 1920s, the development of airplanes and airports created other industrial/commercial centers outside the cities. Meanwhile massive immigration from 1880-1920 swelled urban populations, hugely increasing the population of the main cities but also turning some of these smaller towns into actual little cities themselves. Lackawanna, NY, Gary, IN, and numerous other cities grew up as "company towns" just outside cities like Buffalo, NY and Chicago, IL. Other cities like New Kensington, PA or Cohoes, NY grew up because a variety of manufacturers settled there to be near some resource.

That's all before the development in the suburban areas outside the cities after WW II.

People still live and work in those places, and have done so for a century or more. Some take jobs in other nearby cities or in the bigger city but not necessarily in downtown. Many jobs, especially industrial ones, run shifts that frequently start at 7 am and 3:30pm. People employed in maintenace often work 11:30-7:00 am shifts. The almost universal model that US transit systems employ is that everybody works downtown, and that they will ride transit from 7:00 AM-8:30 AM and from 4:00 pm-6:00 pm. If you have to travel across town or from one outlying city neighborhood to another outside of the main hours, good luck with that.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:49 PM
 
410 posts, read 389,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
I think it does escape a lot of people. Even transportation professionals. Because a lot of walking trips and even cycling trips are only really possible in a multi-modal environment. The mere presence of transit engenders walking trips.

According to the NHTS walking, cycling, and transit account for around 20% of all trips. Given the lack of infrastructure and the overall lack of investment in those modes over the last 60+ years a number that high is actually surprising.

Saying "Americans don't walk or take transit" is like underfunding a school and then feigning surprise at declining enrollment. It's a self-fulfilling proposition.

Who determines that infrastructure for walking, biking, and transit facilities have been underfunded over the last 60 years? Are only urban elitists entitled to make such declarations? Why not say "according to the NHTS walking, cycling, and transit account for around 15% of all trips"? Isn't 16.6% closer to 15% than 20%?

Percent of Person Trips by Mode of Transportation (2009 NHTS survey)
Private Vehicle = 83.4%
Transit =1.9%
Walk = 10.4%
Other = 4.2%






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Old 02-05-2015, 01:50 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,979,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
I think it does escape a lot of people. Even transportation professionals. Because a lot of walking trips and even cycling trips are only really possible in a multi-modal environment. The mere presence of transit engenders walking trips.
Not necessarily. You could live a neighborhood dense enough that there's a lot in walking distance or happen to be close to a lot of shops. Maybe even parking is limited enough often you're better off walking for short distances. But the area transit could be poor, or just so decentralized that transit isn't used much. A lot of town can be pedestrian friendly than outside have little transit. The connection between cycling and transit is even weaker IMO.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Many Americans are just too lazy to take mass transit or simply walk or jog to work. Obesity rates supports this.

Compare urban cities vs suburbs and you find most fat people live in the suburbs and prefers drive-thrus.

I enjoy my rush hour commutes because I get to slowly wake myself up vs being in a panic mode driving bumper to bumper against bad drivers.

Rush hour driving is bad for your health and safety. Auto accidents soon will outpace some health diseases.
Have you ever tried to catch a bus with two small children in winter weather in the middle of the day, especially if you need to go across town or make connections with another route? Try walking a half mile to a bus stop with a couple of small children in areas where property owners do not bother to clear snow from their sidewalks, and then spend 15 minutes waiting for the Metro bus.

You can come to my town any time you want and demonstrate how great it is to walk/jog the 3.5 miles from my house to my job through 4 inches of new snow when the temp's 12 degrees and the wind's blowing at 20 mph. Then you can rest up for a few hours before you make the trek home, same conditions, but I live on the second tallest hill in Jamestown, about a 200 foot rise.
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