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Old 02-05-2015, 07:06 PM
 
12,299 posts, read 15,196,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
I think it does escape a lot of people. Even transportation professionals. Because a lot of walking trips and even cycling trips are only really possible in a multi-modal environment. The mere presence of transit engenders walking trips.

According to the NHTS walking, cycling, and transit account for around 20% of all trips. Given the lack of infrastructure and the overall lack of investment in those modes over the last 60+ years a number that high is actually surprising.

Saying "Americans don't walk or take transit" is like underfunding a school and then feigning surprise at declining enrollment. It's a self-fulfilling proposition.
The fact that the media is located in the US city with the most transit likely gives reporters the idea it available everywhere. So they are surprised most Americans don't use it.

It's also the case that skiing, surfing, and fishing are not very popular forms of recreation in Arizona.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Your description also fits my area well.



I don't think that's a universal model, except in the more limited systems. Definitely the hours isn't true. Except for some poorly used commuter buses or rail most transit doesn't shut down outside of peak rush hour. Frequency may decline, but the service is still there. True, transit systems have a strong radial component. But the bus part of transit system often have a strong grid-like component as well.

In Chicago bus routes wind down and some stop after 10:00p.m. and will not start again till around 6:00a.m.. This becomes an problem for night workers or workers whose shift isn't 8-4 or 9-5. Can you get around by transit after 10 pm, sure but you are going to be walking greater distances in the dark....not an good thing.
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,523,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJA View Post
No I don't live a mile from the store. It's about 3 miles.
3 miles, then I have a hard time believing you could drive there, get what you need, and drive back all within 15 minutes.
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Old 02-06-2015, 12:53 AM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,955,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Not necessarily. You could live a neighborhood dense enough that there's a lot in walking distance or happen to be close to a lot of shops. Maybe even parking is limited enough often you're better off walking for short distances. But the area transit could be poor, or just so decentralized that transit isn't used much. A lot of town can be pedestrian friendly than outside have little transit. The connection between cycling and transit is even weaker IMO.
That was kind of my original point - that a lot of those trips disappear when JTW data gets used.

But even if you are just looking at JTW - look at where walking and biking are already big and where they're growing quickly. Boston, Philly, DC, NYC, Minneapolis, Portland, SF, etc ie, places that are already dense or relatively dense and with decent transit systems.

It's tough to commit to biking or walking places when you don't have an alternative. If I'm in Philly and I ride to West Philly and it starts pouring rain or I get a flat I don't need to worry about how I'm gonna get home.
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Old 02-06-2015, 01:05 AM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,955,202 times
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Originally Posted by impala096 View Post
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Who determines that infrastructure for walking, biking, and transit facilities have been underfunded over the last 60 years? Are only urban elitists entitled to make such declarations?
Neither elitism nor ad hominems (nor projecting for that matter) determine what infrastructure is underfunded.

Shutting down rail lines because there is no money to fix the bridges that carry them before large pieces of concrete start falling off of said bridges is the only important determinant.
PlanPhilly | SEPTA's critical deferred project update
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:05 AM
 
410 posts, read 389,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
Neither elitism nor ad hominems (nor projecting for that matter) determine what infrastructure is underfunded.

Shutting down rail lines because there is no money to fix the bridges that carry them before large pieces of concrete start falling off of said bridges is the only important determinant.
PlanPhilly | SEPTA's critical deferred project update
A lot of highway bridges will include underbelly supports (sheets of plywood) to prevent dislodged chunks of concrete from falling onto unsuspecting motorists. Heck, there has been a couple of highway bridge collapses in recent months. America's highways are vastly underfunded, based on your very own determinant. Why focus on the crumbling transit infrastructure and make no mention of the crumbling highway infrastructure? More money needs to be spent on America's roads.
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Old 02-06-2015, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,242,183 times
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Does anyone know the ratio of roads to transit spending in EU countries?

Edit: Found a couple of sources.

In the U.S., there's an 81/19 split at the federal level, an 81/19 split at the state level, and a 61/39 split at the local level.

http://streets.mn/2014/10/02/chart-o...t-govt-levels/

In Western Europe, there's a 60/40 split (favoring roads). In Eastern Europe, it's an 84/16 split.

http://www.internationaltransportfor...dingTrends.pdf
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Old 02-06-2015, 12:43 PM
 
Location: South Park, San Diego
4,940 posts, read 7,596,851 times
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We are among those who very rarely use transit for work but fairly frequently for social activities. We both work about 6 miles from our house and for that short trip where being punctual is important transit is not convenient (when I used to work downtown, about 2.5 miles from home I took the bus every day). But for baseball games, bar/restaurant hopping and neighborhood festivals all around the city core we are often hopping on the bus or Trolly even though we own two nice cars.
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Old 02-06-2015, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,242,183 times
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This study offers a bit more detail.

http://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/Ass...gesFunding.pdf

Between 2007 and 2011, an average of $207 billion per year was spent on transportation infrastructure (bridges, highways, tunnels, subways, etc.), accounting for 1.4% of our GDP. Of that $207 billion, 26.1%, or $54.1 billion, was spent on transit. That's lower than Western Europe but higher than Eastern Europe. Transit spending obviously varies by state and region.

I guess one could say that part of the problem is that we keep "throwing money at roads," but the bigger issue seems to be that we don't throw enough money towards infrastructure in general.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:52 PM
 
12,299 posts, read 15,196,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
3 miles, then I have a hard time believing you could drive there, get what you need, and drive back all within 15 minutes.
One of my childhood memories was going to the store with my uncle (RIP). It took about ten minutes or so to drive there but maybe a minute to drive back. Probably due to one way streets.
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