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Old 02-09-2015, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Sprawl is Clark County, Wa's problem. At the end of the day, there is still only two access points into Oregon from them, so that creates a natural growth barrier for that county.

Also, of course commute times are longer in Portland than Clark County because all those workers are going to Portland. To get a better idea, one just needs to look at the amount of traffic the two access points receive to see how long commute times are for those in Clark County. If they want more roads, then they should be willing to pay for them.
Until WA decides it wants more anyway. All the previous talks have fallen apart because WA doesn't want to pay for the bridge(s). Portland usually thinks really short term. New bridges mean more cars paying parking taxes which would help its cashtstrapped transit budget. Of course more cars also means more road maintenance, but Portland is pretty good at just not doing that and watching the roads fall apart so that's not a problem in the near-term.
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Old 02-09-2015, 05:10 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Seattle (and Portland) both definitely have the anti-car policies going. One thing Seattle is doing that Portland is not, however, is simultaneously pushing buses whereas Portland is cutting bus service to pay for its rail service. I think that's part of why you've seen Portland's transit share decrease.
What anti-car policies would you say Seattle has

Quote:
Seattle's RapidRide buses already far surpass the importance of light rail, so the decision to focus on rail by cutting bus service very well could be detrimental to a city.
Seattle's current light rail route except for a few spots doesn't appear that populated nor have any significant job centers (besides downtown, of course). The expansion look like they'd be in more used routes (U District, Bellevue). And there's only one light rail line currently. RapidRide has 53,500 weekday riders over 64 miles, the current light rail line has 37,5000 weekday riders over 16 miles. So, the one light rail line has more riders than any rapid ride line.
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Old 02-09-2015, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
What anti-car policies would you say Seattle has



Seattle's current light rail route except for a few spots doesn't appear that populated nor have any significant job centers (besides downtown, of course). The expansion look like they'd be in more used routes (U District, Bellevue). And there's only one light rail line currently. RapidRide has 53,500 weekday riders over 64 miles, the current light rail line has 37,5000 weekday riders over 16 miles. So, the one light rail line has more riders than any rapid ride line.
Yup, like I said RapidRide buses are already of greater importance. It's very likely some of them will eventually be replaced with light rail though. Like I said, Seattle is doing both. It didn't really cost a whole lot, so when East Link gets built it's not any great loss. You get something today versus 2023 when East Link is scheduled to open. West Seattle Link is also on the table. Also big advantage with Link is it goes downtown. RapidRide (currently) does not have routes through downtown. There's still trying to figure out how to run them through downtown.

And I'd consider maximum parking policies to be clearly anti-car. On top of that, it was talking about the problem of inexpensive parking. Seattle taxes parking at 12.5% and that's most likely going up to 17.5% soon. In comparison, Seattle subsidizes transit by 70%. Obviously depends where. I'm talking about downtown, although there is a Fred Meyer (WalMart) in Ballard with a big parking lot so it's not like the inexpensive parking is exclusively a burbs feature. Clearly those with an agenda for pushing people into transit are going to be concerned beyond downtown and would also be included the inexpensive parking "problem" in less dense neighborhoods.

Seattle's anti-car policies are limited to downtown. Interesting how RapidRide numbers are doing what they're doing seeing as how it doesn't run downtown at all.

Last edited by Malloric; 02-09-2015 at 05:54 PM..
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,528,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Until WA decides it wants more anyway. All the previous talks have fallen apart because WA doesn't want to pay for the bridge(s). Portland usually thinks really short term. New bridges mean more cars paying parking taxes which would help its cashtstrapped transit budget. Of course more cars also means more road maintenance, but Portland is pretty good at just not doing that and watching the roads fall apart so that's not a problem in the near-term.
Your statement makes no sense, you claim Portland thinks only short term, yet Portland is the city planning for long term growth and solutions. Clark County is only thinking about the short term by thinking they just need a bigger bridge for more cars yet not wanting to pay for it.

As for the roads falling apart here, that is an exaggeration. Portland's weather is mild and the road deterioration rate is rather slow. We have roads in need of repair, but you aren't gonna blow a tire on our roads.
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:51 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Seattle's anti-car policies are limited to downtown. Interesting how RapidRide numbers are doing what they're doing seeing as how it doesn't run downtown at all.
Good point. However, the three of them do run downtown (C, D and E). The D and E are the busiest routes.
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:53 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
As for the roads falling apart here, that is an exaggeration. Portland's weather is mild and the road deterioration rate is rather slow. We have roads in need of repair, but you aren't gonna blow a tire on our roads.
Massachusetts probably could win a "most potholed" road award. Last month's weather has been kind to the roads: hard to get freeze thaw cycles when it doesn't go above freezing. Salt should wear down the roads so more by early spring.
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:57 PM
 
Location: bend oregon
929 posts, read 844,258 times
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roads dont last long when you have trees growing next to them and big trucks drive on them.
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Old 02-09-2015, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,528,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Yup, like I said RapidRide buses are already of greater importance. It's very likely some of them will eventually be replaced with light rail though. Like I said, Seattle is doing both. It didn't really cost a whole lot, so when East Link gets built it's not any great loss. You get something today versus 2023 when East Link is scheduled to open. West Seattle Link is also on the table. Also big advantage with Link is it goes downtown. RapidRide (currently) does not have routes through downtown. There's still trying to figure out how to run them through downtown.

And I'd consider maximum parking policies to be clearly anti-car. On top of that, it was talking about the problem of inexpensive parking. Seattle taxes parking at 12.5% and that's most likely going up to 17.5% soon. In comparison, Seattle subsidizes transit by 70%. Obviously depends where. I'm talking about downtown, although there is a Fred Meyer (WalMart) in Ballard with a big parking lot so it's not like the inexpensive parking is exclusively a burbs feature. Clearly those with an agenda for pushing people into transit are going to be concerned beyond downtown and would also be included the inexpensive parking "problem" in less dense neighborhoods.

Seattle's anti-car policies are limited to downtown. Interesting how RapidRide numbers are doing what they're doing seeing as how it doesn't run downtown at all.
It is good that Seattle has a maximum parking because they have such limited space that it makes no sense to waste it all on parking. Especially when they have parking not being used.
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Old 02-09-2015, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,528,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Massachusetts probably could win a "most potholed" road award. Last month's weather has been kind to the roads: hard to get freeze thaw cycles when it doesn't go above freezing. Salt should wear down the roads so more by early spring.
Exactly, people here think the roads are bad. They have no idea what bad looks like. There were roads in Jersey I wouldn't use during the winter because the potholes were so bad that it looked like a warzone.
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:15 AM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,955,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Cleveland's rapid transit has about half the ridership of light rail that's generally regarded to be a joke like VTA (Santa Clara/San Jose). Sometimes you just end up with build it and no one will use it.
VTA light rail is a joke because of its speeds. I considered taking the light rail from Mountain View to a meeting in downtown SJ but the scheduled time was around 45 minutes. I just didn't have 90 minutes to waste on the round trip. Someone really screwed the pooch on the signaling there.

Light Rail Efficiency

They spent light rail money but got a streetcar system.
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