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Old 01-23-2015, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
328 posts, read 255,439 times
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Quote:
ETA: I've resigned myself to the fact that if you want to live in a global city with good services and amenities you have to pay for it. Toronto, Vancouver, New York, SF, DC, Sydney, London, etc . . . there is quite a bit of price variation among them but they're all expensive.
THIS.

It has taken me too long to realize this fact -- and that's the way it will be. Affrodable {insert global city here} may be possible, technically, but it isn't something you can bank on.
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:41 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 2,010,671 times
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Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
I don't know - Montreal is 5-10 degrees colder than Toronto in winter. Don't get me wrong, I really like Montreal, but in a practical sense moving to Toronto is about as seamless a transition as you can make in moving to a new country and the weather isn't that much different from Chicago.

I've considered Montreal (US planners can work in Canada through NAFTA without too much trouble) but I've heard a lot about the language drama there and, not just from the visa perspective, that it can be difficult to find work of a professional sort if you're not credentialed in Quebec and even then if you're viewed as an outsider it can be exceedingly difficult regardless of your language skills and credentials.

ETA: I've resigned myself to the fact that if you want to live in a global city with good services and amenities you have to pay for it. Toronto, Vancouver, New York, SF, DC, Sydney, London, etc . . . there is quite a bit of price variation among them but they're all expensive.
Global city = high wage/specialized job hub = expensive no matter how you cut it. If you were to look at the 15-20 cities with the most global influence, Chicago is probably the least expensive (salaries v costs). Even if you were to include global cities in developing countries where services aren't up to par. If you want an okay place with creature comforts (maybe 1000 sqft, decent kitchen, plumbing, wiring where you can duplicate the amenities you'd get in the us or canada, you're going to pay for it
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:45 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,968,115 times
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Originally Posted by Chicago76 View Post
Global city = high wage/specialized job hub = expensive no matter how you cut it. If you were to look at the 15-20 cities with the most global influence, Chicago is probably the least expensive (salaries v costs). Even if you were to include global cities in developing countries where services aren't up to par. If you want an okay place with creature comforts (maybe 1000 sqft, decent kitchen, plumbing, wiring where you can duplicate the amenities you'd get in the us or canada, you're going to pay for it
Yeah man, I moved from Philly to Australia and the sticker shock was crazy . . . then I moved to the Bay Area . . . I thought my Australian rent was high

There's a lot I like about Philly, (not that I consider it on the same stage as Chicago) it's relatively cheap, it has great food, a laid back pace of life, people are friendly and there's a sense of community that's lacking in a lot of other big cities. But the crime, the garbage blowing in the streets, the schools that continue to get worse (how is that even possible?) are things I'm too old to compromise on anymore. That and it's great if you're working in certain sectors like eds or meds, pharma, etc but it can really limit your career opportunities in a lot of other fields.

Places are expensive or cheap for a wide variety of reasons but a lot of it has to do with a certain QOL.

I'm not knocking the Buffalos or Clevelands. It's an option I sometimes consider and may well end up there. It's just a trade off really between cost and opportunities.
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Old 01-23-2015, 08:23 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 2,010,671 times
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Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
Yeah man, I moved from Philly to Australia and the sticker shock was crazy . . . then I moved to the Bay Area . . . I thought my Australian rent was high

There's a lot I like about Philly, (not that I consider it on the same stage as Chicago) it's relatively cheap, it has great food, a laid back pace of life, people are friendly and there's a sense of community that's lacking in a lot of other big cities. But the crime, the garbage blowing in the streets, the schools that continue to get worse (how is that even possible?) are things I'm too old to compromise on anymore. That and it's great if you're working in certain sectors like eds or meds, pharma, etc but it can really limit your career opportunities in a lot of other fields.

Places are expensive or cheap for a wide variety of reasons but a lot of it has to do with a certain QOL.

I'm not knocking the Buffalos or Clevelands. It's an option I sometimes consider and may well end up there. It's just a trade off really between cost and opportunities.
I can completely relate. I did London, NYC and Chicago. The latter struck the ideal balance, although Philly is up there. I'm in one of those Buffalos and Clevelands now. Extremely affordable and easy, but like you said, career opps are limited. Even the major cities in places like Istanbul aren't any less expensive than a place like Chicago. Sure, beer and street food are cheap, but if you're trying to find a neighborhood with amenities in a unit that is comfortable, it's no cheaper than Chicago...before wage differences.
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,312 posts, read 5,363,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
I don't know - Montreal is 5-10 degrees colder than Toronto in winter. Don't get me wrong, I really like Montreal, but in a practical sense moving to Toronto is about as seamless a transition as you can make in moving to a new country and the weather isn't that much different from Chicago.

I've considered Montreal (US planners can work in Canada through NAFTA without too much trouble) but I've heard a lot about the language drama there and, not just from the visa perspective, that it can be difficult to find work of a professional sort if you're not credentialed in Quebec and even then if you're viewed as an outsider it can be exceedingly difficult regardless of your language skills and credentials.

ETA: I've resigned myself to the fact that if you want to live in a global city with good services and amenities you have to pay for it. Toronto, Vancouver, New York, SF, DC, Sydney, London, etc . . . there is quite a bit of price variation among them but they're all expensive.
Some good points. Although "global city" is a bit illusive, and that's not to say I don't think there's a world of difference between a place like Philly and London. COL and QOL can be very intricately linked, unless you're rich. To me, Philly COL affords everything I could ever want from a city, granting a great QOL. That's not to say the litter, schools and crime aren't significant issues however.

Also, I agree with you about the challenges of Montreal. My wife and I deeply explored and almost moved there, and you're exactly right. Moving anyplace internationally with a language you don't speak fluently will pose those complex challenges. We almost moved to Lugano, Switzerland for a job as well and many of the expats there stated the same challenge you did about being an outsider. I think that's pretty common in strongly nationalist countries/provinces/cities.
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:30 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,220,191 times
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Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
Also, I agree with you about the challenges of Montreal. My wife and I deeply explored and almost moved there, and you're exactly right. Moving anyplace internationally with a language you don't speak fluently will pose those complex challenges. We almost moved to Lugano, Switzerland for a job as well and many of the expats there stated the same challenge you did about being an outsider. I think that's pretty common in strongly nationalist countries/provinces/cities.
I have a friend who moved there who found getting by on just English difficult, the locals weren't that accommodating. His girlfriend couldn't find a decent job since she knew no French, so she ended up staying back in Massachusetts living with her parents. He's probably going to leave Montreal.
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Old 01-25-2015, 10:38 AM
 
Location: East Coast
678 posts, read 697,202 times
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
I have a friend who moved there who found getting by on just English difficult, the locals weren't that accommodating. His girlfriend couldn't find a decent job since she knew no French, so she ended up staying back in Massachusetts living with her parents. He's probably going to leave Montreal.
He should just hang out in the English-speaking neighborhoods - there's plenty of them!
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Old 01-26-2015, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,029 posts, read 27,508,798 times
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Originally Posted by ARrocket View Post
He should just hang out in the English-speaking neighborhoods - there's plenty of them!
Yeah, but it's still more of an enclave thing going on (albeit it a fairly large one).

It makes it pretty easy to navigate and live temporarily as a visitor, but as a long-term resident you will bump into situations where not knowing French will make things complicated for you. Multiply this problem a bunch of times if you have to actually look for a job there.
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Old 01-28-2015, 02:46 PM
 
Location: East Coast
678 posts, read 697,202 times
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yeah, but it's still more of an enclave thing going on (albeit it a fairly large one).

It makes it pretty easy to navigate and live temporarily as a visitor, but as a long-term resident you will bump into situations where not knowing French will make things complicated for you. Multiply this problem a bunch of times if you have to actually look for a job there.
Oh yeah, definitely. My comment was more regarding the locals that weren't that accommodating. Walk into a bar or restaurant in NDG and see how accommodating the Anglophones can be
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