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Old 01-22-2015, 09:16 PM
Status: "Happy New Year!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
88,748 posts, read 105,140,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Gen X doesn't have loyalty to our companies either. This is because we saw the Boomers get mistreated by the companies they were loyal to.
I've never been one to be extremely "loyal" in the typical sense of the word to my employer(s). I believe in giving an honest day's work for a day's pay. I have worked for a lot of government agencies (health departments), that may have something to do with it.
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Old 01-23-2015, 07:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Gen X doesn't have loyalty to our companies either. This is because we saw the Boomers get mistreated by the companies they were loyal to.
Yup, add in the fact that pensions are no longer part of a company's promise and there isn't much left. Large corporations (especially) are often times ruthless in their layoffs and treatment of workers. On the other side, Gen X'ers can transfer their 401ks if they move and often times get nice pay increases if they make the jump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
I've never been one to be extremely "loyal" in the typical sense of the word to my employer(s). I believe in giving an honest day's work for a day's pay. I have worked for a lot of government agencies (health departments), that may have something to do with it.
You can move to a different company and still give an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. In fact, I find that when I've consulted at different companies that I work harder than some long-term employees because I have to come up to speed on the company (and their operations, product, etc.) and prove myself.

But back on topic...now that I've consulted for a number of companies, I do realize that location is a HUGE factor and one worth sticking around for. No company or job is even close to perfect, but having an easy commute and getting paid good money is the best of both worlds IMO. And working in a walkable environment is big part of that, partly because of where I live, but because it's also tied to better public transportation; it's so much easier to get to where I work (huge transportation hub across the street for buses, subways and commuter rail). And I think there are decent parking options, although rush hour can't be fun.

Plus, on lunch there are great parks, lunch spots and an excellent environment to go with it. After having worked in suburban office parks, it's FAR more enjoyable IMO.
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Old 01-23-2015, 08:26 AM
 
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There's a collection of things I'd like to address all at once, so I won't bother quoting anybody.

But the above comment ^^ is a great one to illustrate several of my points. "Loyalty" may not even be a factor anymore, but if you provide an environment for your employees that's enjoyable, it will take them longer to get fed up and start looking elsewhere. And in the meantime, you'll get better work out of them, because they're more likely to feel valued. And a person who feels valued tends to produce valuable work.

So the question becomes, how do you make employees feel valued? Just like with any relationship, you can't succeed at this unless you have some understanding of what the person's values are. So if you want to attract Millenials (I know that's a big "IF" and by no means does it apply to everyone) you have to understand that Millenials tend to value the urban walkable environment over the suburban car-centric environment. This is the "millenial culture" I was talking about earlier. Of course there's a lot more to it than that, but it's the aspect that is relevant to this topic.
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Old 01-23-2015, 08:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
There's a collection of things I'd like to address all at once, so I won't bother quoting anybody.

But the above comment ^^ is a great one to illustrate several of my points. "Loyalty" may not even be a factor anymore, but if you provide an environment for your employees that's enjoyable, it will take them longer to get fed up and start looking elsewhere. And in the meantime, you'll get better work out of them, because they're more likely to feel valued. And a person who feels valued tends to produce valuable work.

So the question becomes, how do you make employees feel valued? Just like with any relationship, you can't succeed at this unless you have some understanding of what the person's values are. So if you want to attract Millenials (I know that's a big "IF" and by no means does it apply to everyone) you have to understand that Millenials tend to value the urban walkable environment over the suburban car-centric environment. This is the "millenial culture" I was talking about earlier. Of course there's a lot more to it than that, but it's the aspect that is relevant to this topic.
Good post. Personally, I find it hard to believe that a walkable environment can be considered a second thought (but I know it often times is). If I spend 8 hours+ a day 5 days a week in this location, having a nice walkable environment that affords me amenities for lunch, breaks (especially on stressful days) and diverse commute options, I'm absolutely going to stick around longer. No question. One could argue that more time is spent at work than at home...

And if pay and benefits are the most important components (for some), the work and where it's performed are close behind for me.
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Emigrations View Post
Outside of a few top tier, high skill, hard to fill positions and marquee companies, which are going to be located in major urban areas anyway, the vast majority of Millenial workers do not have the leverage to influence whether the companies locate in the urban core or the suburbs. You go where the job is.
This is true, but those higher paying, higher skilled jobs are the ones with the greatest incomes and discretionary spending. The lower paying, less skilled jobs end up following the money. If there is a relatively higher concentration of people looking to live and work in urban cities or more dense suburbs, then others will follow because that's where people will also require support services/amenities. Not all of them, because some aren't compatible with urban living, but many of them. You're from Carmel. Look at what your town has been trying to pull off for the last 10 years: an affluent employment suburb that is striving to add more walkable/urban elements. Why? Because that's what an increasingly greater proportion of people want. As the pattern continues more people will be drawn to these areas because they will continue to offer more.

In 1980, the choice between downtown Indy and a generic suburb was pretty clear cut because downtown Indy was dead. As a greater number of amenities and options have been offered, the decision to stay in the suburbs is still dominant, but more people are increasingly choosing the other option. Eventually a critical mass will form. One that will form a significantly large enough middle class bubble around certain areas to drive dis amenities down. Things like education concerns at the local school and crime. It's an incremental process.
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Old 01-23-2015, 11:12 PM
 
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Its all about life style to attract and keep skilled workers. Companies are more and more doing innovative things to attractive them; like work from home and cities are doing everything to keep companies from moving to where skills they need live. Light rail is now the urban thought on allowing workers to move to where they wouldn't drive from to keep companies. The vary top long ago solved that as they helicopter as time is to expensive to waste for them. Go to any trading floor you want and they are ghost of former days as example.
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Old 01-24-2015, 12:49 AM
Status: "Happy New Year!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
88,748 posts, read 105,140,668 times
Reputation: 34212
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
There's a collection of things I'd like to address all at once, so I won't bother quoting anybody.

But the above comment ^^ is a great one to illustrate several of my points. "Loyalty" may not even be a factor anymore, but if you provide an environment for your employees that's enjoyable, it will take them longer to get fed up and start looking elsewhere. And in the meantime, you'll get better work out of them, because they're more likely to feel valued. And a person who feels valued tends to produce valuable work.

So the question becomes, how do you make employees feel valued? Just like with any relationship, you can't succeed at this unless you have some understanding of what the person's values are. So if you want to attract Millenials (I know that's a big "IF" and by no means does it apply to everyone) you have to understand that Millenials tend to value the urban walkable environment over the suburban car-centric environment. This is the "millenial culture" I was talking about earlier. Of course there's a lot more to it than that, but it's the aspect that is relevant to this topic.
About the only thing I'd hire a 4th grader for is to cat-sit! They're even too young to babysit, need a babysitter themselves when the parents go out. We're talking about a pretty young demographic, for the most part.

And I will say it again, someone fresh out of college, with a degree and no professional work experience, does not have a lot of bargaining chips.
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Old 01-24-2015, 07:42 AM
 
1,323 posts, read 1,120,373 times
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(Although the "bargaining chips" argument she keeps coming back to is hard to justify. Does she think we're talking about 4th graders, or college graduates? The fact is, not only does the Millennial generation include college graduates, it includes those who have been graduated for 7-8 years. That's room for a lot of potential professional experience.)

Last edited by nei; 01-24-2015 at 08:01 AM.. Reason: trolling
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Old 01-24-2015, 08:06 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: NYC
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I think the thread is referring to adult Millennials, especially since we're talking about the job market:

The Pew Research Center, an American think tank organization, defined "adult Millennials" as those who are 18 to 34 years old, born 1981–1997.[20] And according to them, the youngest Millennials are still "in their teens" with "no chronological end point set for them yet". Another chart by the organization lists the Millennial birth range as 1981–1999.

While fresh out of college workers don't have the best bargaining position, companies do go to colleges and recruit and sell themselves. Work environment may or may not be something they use to market themselves.
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Old 01-24-2015, 08:09 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
It usually does whether you live there or not.
If you live there you have to pay higher for crappier housing plus you have to pay to park, etc. Then there is the cost of a meal while you are there. My experience suggests you pay more for that in the city too. If you don't live there you have to commute in. If you drive you'll have to pay for parking either way. Many cities also have a tax imposed on people that work in the city but don't live there. Insurance costs (health, property, etc.) also tend to be higher for city than outside the city.
Suburbs can have higher taxes than the city; it's a wash. Paying for parking matters only if you drive. Whether the housing is higher quality is subjective depending on what you want, though often housing is more expensive. I haven't noticed any difference in meal prices.
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