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Old 01-26-2015, 10:06 PM
 
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We owe the most amazing debt of gratitude to Jane Jacobs for saving New York from the ravages of the automobile. New York will save us all by forever serving as the model for what a cities can and should be.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-c...QT6t7kg#t=1395
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Old 01-26-2015, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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I agree, she was an amazing woman and has been the reason for so many beautiful old neighborhoods being saved.
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Old 01-27-2015, 06:11 AM
 
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The problem with using NY as the model is that it doesn't work for less dense areas. Many things work in NY because the very large size and density means that there is enough demand to support multiple systems that give users a choice. Less dense areas and smaller cities do not have the mass to support the multiple interconnected systems that NY can afford.
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Old 01-27-2015, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Ironically the neighborhoods still gentrified, one of the big reasons she was against Moses-ification
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:52 AM
 
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Default Ravaging gentrifiers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Ironically the neighborhoods still gentrified, one of the big reasons she was against Moses-ification
...care not for the real economic ability of people of modest means to easily get to places of employment but only that their nostalgic fondness for outdated modes of travel are perpetuated by intrusive laws.

If we had rational lawmakers that weighed the real impact of stifling business development instead of fake populists that listen only to the loudest and most obnoxious voices we would have very different kind of cities. Instead of the under-employed hipsters we might have the kind of efficient workforce that could afford to buy the products they make. The best current example of this probably Germany and one of the big reasons behind their success in manufacturing has nothing to do with eliminating roadways but instead applying scientific research to the problems of manufacturing instead of allowing clueless politicians to follow some romantic ideas that bear no relation to reality -- https://www.asme.org/engineering-top...-germany-do-it


Not surprising Germany's extensive Autobahn network is also a powerhouse for its economic success. Despite its much smaller land area the German network of expressways is third behind the US & China -- Autobahn History - German-Autobahn.eu
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:54 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by chet everett View Post

Not surprising Germany's extensive Autobahn network is also a powerhouse for its economic success. Despite its much smaller land area the German network of expressways is third behind the US & China -- Autobahn History - German-Autobahn.eu
And German expressways usually don't go near the city center nor demolished old urban neighborhoods, as was proposed for NYC.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mu...0cb84a7db1987d

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...263df27bd63aa0
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:42 AM
 
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The problem about using New York City as a model for other cities is that those of us in flyover country who have spent substantial time in New York City know that the quality of life there is crap compared to where we live. It is stressful, inconvenient, and expensive. New Yorkers work longer hours, spend more time commuting, have less options for the necessities of life, and put up with a less responsive and sometimes even corrupt local government than would be tolerated by most sensible folk. No one here is getting on a subway with a bunch of hooligans and drooling munters unless they have lost all other options.
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Old 01-27-2015, 10:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
The problem about using New York City as a model for other cities is that those of us in flyover country who have spent substantial time in New York City know that the quality of life there is crap compared to where we live. It is stressful, inconvenient, and expensive. New Yorkers work longer hours, spend more time commuting, have less options for the necessities of life, and put up with a less responsive and sometimes even corrupt local government than would be tolerated by most sensible folk. No one here is getting on a subway with a bunch of hooligans and drooling munters unless they have lost all other options.
LOL so you really believe your opinion is objective and those who disagree with you are just not "sensible"? "Quality of life" is in the eye of the beholder. It's subjective. What might be "crap" quality of life for you is a great quality of life for others. What you consider to be "stressful, inconvenient and expensive" my friends in NYC consider to be "exciting, very convenient and worth the money." They have no plans on leaving, they love their lives and I live in a city nearly as expensive as NYC and still have no plans on leaving. I happily pay more in rent to live in a dense busy city because I actually LIKE noise, business, public transit, rarely driving and living in small apartments. I find lots of space, driving everywhere, mowing a lawn, etc. to be dull and depressing.
I would hate to live in a small town. To me that would be a boring, "crap" quality of life. Does that mean I don't think it is a great quality of life for many many people? Of course it is. I don't presume that my choices and outlook are the same as others.

It's amazing to me that you are (I assume) an adult and still haven't learned that other people have different preferences than you.
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Old 01-27-2015, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Ironically the neighborhoods still gentrified, one of the big reasons she was against Moses-ification
There would have been nothing to gentrify if Moses had his way.
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Old 01-27-2015, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post

Not surprising Germany's extensive Autobahn network is also a powerhouse for its economic success. Despite its much smaller land area the German network of expressways is third behind the US & China -- Autobahn History - German-Autobahn.eu
This AND they have an impressive rail network, including high speed rail. And here are some examples of their populations for cities with extensive urban and suburban rail networks: Berlin, 3.5 M. Munich, 1.4 M. And yes, the Germans do own cars at about the same rate as Americans. They produce some of the best cars in the world. But somehow they have figured out how to do "powerhouse" expressway networks AND comprehensive rail networks, including high speed rail, despite their cities having the populations comparable to places like Houston and Salt Lake City (hint: expressways don't need to cut directly through city centers to be effective, and people will use a good rail system even if they own a car).

Kind of puts in to doubt the often-made claim that "you must have a population like NYC for any alternative transport system to work."
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