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Old 02-13-2015, 09:07 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,053,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Or crimed out of the neighborhood. My mom owned a house in a quiet, safe neighborhood. Over the years, more and more rentals went in, and with it came more and more crime.

She decided it was time to move when a guy broke into her house, thinking it was the drug house next door, and came up her stairs while she was sleeping. Her calling out drove him out, but not before he stole her purse. She put the house up for sale shortly after that.

Sounds like evil greedy landlords and government are to blame.
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Old 02-14-2015, 01:13 AM
 
6,353 posts, read 5,158,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
Anyone who thinks schools are just a miniscule part of the calculation for families contemplating a move needs to take a look at these threads from some city/state forums that I visit:
[snip long list of threads]
Schools are the ONLY difficult part of the calculation. I can find a nice house almost anywhere. (Commute times are also a consideration, but I can find a nice house with good commute times almost anywhere.)
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
People can "age in place" only if they are not priced out of the neighborhood.
...not to mention not affected by employment changes, health changes...
The urban "age in place" theory is for lotus eaters.

The theory starts off with false hypothesis that a population needs to be static, then assumes certain area attributes will lead to that objective due to "choice", and inherently presumes choice of selecting and of staying when such choices are as much a myth as the hypothesis.
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Old 02-14-2015, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,896 posts, read 7,656,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
...not to mention not affected by employment changes, health changes...
The urban "age in place" theory is for lotus eaters.


The theory starts off with false hypothesis that a population needs to be static, then assumes certain area attributes will lead to that objective due to "choice", and inherently presumes choice of selecting and of staying when such choices are as much a myth as the hypothesis.
The "urban 'age in place' theory?" Isn't this true for everyone, anywhere?

Whenever it's mentioned that some empty-nesters will trade their large suburban home for a smaller urban home, another regular poster in this forum will often mention that most people will age in place. If this is true for suburban residents, I see no reason why it would be less true for urban residents.
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Old 02-14-2015, 09:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
...not to mention not affected by employment changes, health changes...
The urban "age in place" theory is for lotus eaters.

The theory starts off with false hypothesis that a population needs to be static, then assumes certain area attributes will lead to that objective due to "choice", and inherently presumes choice of selecting and of staying when such choices are as much a myth as the hypothesis.
Of course there are reasons why someone would need to leave an area that would prevent them from aging in place, but it's clear you don't have a handle on the concept and are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Aging in place doesn't necessarily mean you stay in the same housing unit until the day you die. It means that you can continue to live in the same area and enjoy the same amenities with the same social networks when things like climbing stairs and driving become obstacles. This assumes some sense of neighborhood stability, the desire to stay rather than chase the grandkids across the country, etc. My wife and I have worked through this with our families.

On one side, you have elderly who can't drive, can't climb stairs, and don't have facilities in their immediate areas that would support them. They dragged their feet longer when it came to moving, fell into deeper depression because they were isolated from friends/family (living further away with no access to public transit), shoveled snow and cleaned gutters at 85 (when at their health, they had no business doing either). They went from isolated and deprssed in a suburban sfh to isolated and depressed in a nursing home way past the time when they should have entered one. They can't move down the hall for meals and by the time they entered, had lost faculties needed to take part in any of the activities.

On the other side, we had people who lived in an urban neighborhood. They walked more to things and socialized. After the husband died from cancer, the woman sold the place and moved 3 blocks down the street to a midrise where she wouldn't have to climb stairs. She can no longer drive, but can still walk a few blocks. She has a huge public park, bookstore, hair salon, restaurants, smaller grocery store, post office, and church all within walking distance. Her kids and grandkids live three blocks down. After school, they go to her place for a couple hours while their parents work. When the time comes, there is a nursing/assisted care facility 200 yards down the street from where she lives.

Can everyone enjoy this degree of flexibility? Of course not. But it's clear that these areas are valued. That's why they are generally more expensive. As more people understand this, more neighborhoods will receive investment along the way to create these types of opportunities.
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago76 View Post

On one side, you have elderly who can't drive, can't climb stairs, and don't have facilities in their immediate areas that would support them. They dragged their feet longer when it came to moving, fell into deeper depression because they were isolated from friends/family (living further away with no access to public transit), shoveled snow and cleaned gutters at 85 (when at their health, they had no business doing either). They went from isolated and deprssed in a suburban sfh to isolated and depressed in a nursing home way past the time when they should have entered one. They can't move down the hall for meals and by the time they entered, had lost faculties needed to take part in any of the activities.


My mother is 85 with a limp and one lung. Lives in her own home. Doesn't drive, takes cabs if necessary, never takes a bus.

She doesn't want to move into an apartment, much less one in the middle of a city. Wouldn't care to live with any of her offspring either.

I suppose there are some elderly who prefer to be warehoused in senior hirises, so they won't feel isolated. But that isn't everyone.
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:05 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 2,002,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam View Post
My mother is 85 with a limp and one lung. Lives in her own home. Doesn't drive, takes cabs if necessary, never takes a bus.

She doesn't want to move into an apartment, much less one in the middle of a city. Wouldn't care to live with any of her offspring either.

I suppose there are some elderly who prefer to be warehoused in senior hirises, so they won't feel isolated. But that isn't everyone.
It's not for everybody, but the problem with most of the older population transitioning to something else is their daily routine and not being cooped up with a bunch of old people. If you spent your life in a car centric sfh, single use subdivision, moving 20 min to the old folks home means never seeing neighbors, shopping at the same stores, etc. they may well be moving 1000 miles away.

So they do things like stay in place, drive when they shouldn't, or wait 30 min for a cab to take them to the store, who they hire to wait until they're done with shopping to take them home. Fwiw, the mid rise the woman moved into isn't for seniors. It's mixed. She doesn't need a cab or help for 95% of her out of the house needs. She still sees her old neighbors and people from her old neighborhood because she never had to leave it to get a place that met her needs. She probably would never have left her home if she lived in a suburban or rural area because it would have been too big of a change.
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Old 02-14-2015, 02:15 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,053,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
The "urban 'age in place' theory?" Isn't this true for everyone, anywhere?

Whenever it's mentioned that some empty-nesters will trade their large suburban home for a smaller urban home, another regular poster in this forum will often mention that most people will age in place. If this is true for suburban residents, I see no reason why it would be less true for urban residents.

Sure, it's just that urban dwellers are much more likely to be priced out by gentrification.
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Chicago - Logan Square
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago76 View Post
On the other side, we had people who lived in an urban neighborhood. They walked more to things and socialized. After the husband died from cancer, the woman sold the place and moved 3 blocks down the street to a midrise where she wouldn't have to climb stairs. She can no longer drive, but can still walk a few blocks.
In 20 years of living in Chicago I have always had a few neighbors who fit that description.

Just over a year ago a 90 year old neighbor of ours passed away. She had been in her house for more than 50 years. We knew her for the last 8 years of her life, and she was still pretty active right up until the end. She would get up every morning and feed feral cats she was caring for, then walk up to a diner about 1/4 mile away for an egg, toast, and coffee. She'd then walk to a small store and get food for her dinner that night, come home, and walk around our street picking up trash and talking to anyone who was willing (we met her this way when we first looked at our house). She loved talking to anyone with kids, and was invited to pretty much every little kid's birthday party. Once or twice a week her daughter came by with the grandkids to check in on her and do some activity (Cubs games, trip to museums, etc.). That was pretty much her life up until she passed away in her sleep one night.

Currently my neighbor's son is having to deal with his mother having some serious mental health issues (in her mid 80's). She only speaks Spanish, and for the last couple years her speech has gone downhill and I can't understand her that well. When her son came back to check on her he told me he couldn't understand her either, so it wasn't just a language barrier. Her put her in an assisted living facility last weekend and I'm watching her place until her son figures out a long term solution.

Anyways, the big thing about both these women (and a couple other on our street) is that neither has been able to drive in at least 10 years, but both had daily interactions with loads of people and were probably walking at least a mile or two every day. I do think people can do that in some suburbs, but it means a change of habit for many people to do that, and so it isn't as common.


Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Sure, it's just that urban dwellers are much more likely to be priced out by gentrification.
Renters are priced out of any rising market, it has nothing to do with urban vs. suburban. If you are retired and don't own your home you're going to have problems. That has to do with social policies for the elderly, and nothing to do with development or urban/suburban.

In the case of my neighbor going to an assisted living facility the plan is for the son to sell her house to pay for the facility (because he's an evil supporter of gentrification).
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Old 02-14-2015, 06:16 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,053,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attrill View Post
Renters are priced out of any rising market, it has nothing to do with urban vs. suburban. If you are retired and don't own your home you're going to have problems. That has to do with social policies for the elderly, and nothing to do with development or urban/suburban.

In the case of my neighbor going to an assisted living facility the plan is for the son to sell her house to pay for the facility (because he's an evil supporter of gentrification).

Gentrification and the resulting rent shocks are most prevalent in urban neighborhoods. Suburban markets may rise, but established suburban markets generally do not gentrify and do not rise rapidly. Rural markets do not gentrify or rise rapidly unless there is some sudden influx of people, as in North Dakota. So renters in cities are the ones most likely to be priced out of their area.

Homeowners have an inherent financial interest in supporting gentrification, which on the ground effectively equates to class warfare.
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