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Old 02-22-2015, 02:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Not really some traffic is going to said center but using the beltway and other traffic is not. The smart move is to have both so that traffic can sort itself.
not having freeways in the city core has been a blessing, & a lot of cities are trying to remove their current inner loops to allow more room in the city
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Old 02-22-2015, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Nope.

Tons of growth in what I dub "commute hell" (Dublin, Pleasanton, Walnut Creek) areas. A ton of it, however, has been job growth. There's major hospitals in those areas now, whereas before for more advanced things you had to go into Oakland/Fremont. Antioch is much the same way but less successful. The 580 (Dublin/Pleasanton) and 4 are both being widened. They may not be a typical Beltway, but 580/680/880 form basically a bifurcated beltway around the East Bay. Of course, 580 runs through Oakland, but not so much downtown. The spur (980) basically forms an edge of downtown Oakland. The advantage of 90/580/680 is surface traffic in Oakland is pretty good for the most part. I mean, it's Oakland and not San Francisco, but downtown Oakland is a busy place these days. Most traffic heads to a freeway.

Down the Peninsula/South Bay there's the 280/1 beltway. The problem is there aren't really sufficient spurs. Still, the 280 is a tremendous relief valve. If stuff gets really nasty on 1, you can cut over to 280. Traffic is FLYING on 280 on those days. The last time I did that during a last morning commute to San Francisco, I was in the slower of two lanes going 80-85 getting passed up by people doing 90+. Surface traffic in the South Bay Peninsula, as a consequence is generally quite awful. San Jose with all its freeways is definitely better. The problem there is there's just too many people trying to get into San Jose/Mountain View that don't live in the area as there's insufficient housing. The freeways jam up. Surface traffic in San Jose isn't nearly as bad as people are generally on the freeways. Up Mountain View and north, you're predominantly on surface traffic. Highway 1 is a joke of a relic built for an era when there were more oranges than people. So you take El Camino until that jams, then you take Middlefield/Veterans/Industrial/Alameda de las Puglas, basically anything you can find that's still moving. Then finally after that you slog over to 280.

Last edited by Malloric; 02-22-2015 at 03:27 PM..
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Old 02-22-2015, 04:37 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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You mean Highway 1 or did you mean to say 101?
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Old 02-22-2015, 04:54 PM
 
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Other than the Phoenix metro area and maybe in various metros in Texas, I think it will be more difficult (if not impossible) to build any new highways to serve any particular metro. Most of what I saw new in Texas will be all future toll roads to boot.
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Old 02-22-2015, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
You mean Highway 1 or did you mean to say 101?
That would have been 101. Brains not fully working, clearly.
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Old 02-22-2015, 05:06 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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101 appears to be 4 lanes with HOV lane in each direction in San Jose, 4 lanes on the peninsula too. So how is it a relic?
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Old 02-22-2015, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Because there's now 2 million people in San Jose-Santa Clara and another 750,000 in San Mateo County. When it was built, there might have been that many oranges, but there sure as heck weren't anywhere close to that many people. San Jose's population has grown ten-fold since then. Given, part of that's because San Jose gobbled up area, but it's not like many people lived there then. Same number of lanes. Even the more populated San Mateo County has tripled.
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Old 02-22-2015, 05:49 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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I guess, but it's already four lanes, what more would you expect?
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Old 02-22-2015, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I guess, but it's already four lanes, what more would you expect?
More!

It's not an in isolation thing. It's an area that's transitioning from being a suburban one to an urban one. They'd have been better off building BART down to San Jose than just relying on freeways entirely. Of course, I don't think anyone really expected the area to grow as fast as it did.

edit: For example, look at the East Bay. Say Swift Center in Concord. Works for cars as well as transit. Apple or Genentech or Facebook really don't, best you can do is shuttle buses. It's just much easier to build things beforehand than shoehorn transit in that kind of works for them in later. Oyster Point (Genentech) looks very different than Swift Center because it really wasn't build with the idea that people might arrive at some other way than by car. I mean, it's kind of close to Caltrain but clearly that wasn't a major design consideration the way Swift Center and BART were. There's way more actual demand in the Peninsula/South Bay than Concord for that to work as well than there is in Concord which is, well, Concord.

Last edited by Malloric; 02-22-2015 at 06:20 PM..
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Old 02-23-2015, 06:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
More!

It's not an in isolation thing. It's an area that's transitioning from being a suburban one to an urban one. They'd have been better off building BART down to San Jose than just relying on freeways entirely. Of course, I don't think anyone really expected the area to grow as fast as it did.

edit: For example, look at the East Bay. Say Swift Center in Concord. Works for cars as well as transit. Apple or Genentech or Facebook really don't, best you can do is shuttle buses. It's just much easier to build things beforehand than shoehorn transit in that kind of works for them in later. Oyster Point (Genentech) looks very different than Swift Center because it really wasn't build with the idea that people might arrive at some other way than by car. I mean, it's kind of close to Caltrain but clearly that wasn't a major design consideration the way Swift Center and BART were. There's way more actual demand in the Peninsula/South Bay than Concord for that to work as well than there is in Concord which is, well, Concord.
I still can't understand BART building a billion dollar expansion into Silicon Valley when there is already Caltrain.
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