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Old 02-25-2015, 01:39 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Originally Posted by 46H View Post
Bergen County, NJ, is 247 sq miles and around 925,000 people. It would be the 24th largest city in the US by sq miles and 11th largest city in the US by population. There are 70 towns/boroughs. Hackensack is the largest with a population of 43,000.
Heck, Hudson County has a population of 634K, That would make Jersey City quite a large city if that were one.
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Old 02-26-2015, 07:57 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That is basically my take from it while I lived in Hudson County for a couple years. The entire state seems to be in some sort of small town mentality (and I don't mean in a hillbilly, podunk kind of way, but more in the small exclusive community kind of way.) I get why it is the way it is, but it just strikes me as odd that a state with almost 9 million people doesn't have that one big city within it, at least one city in the 600K range at least.
On Long Island, there is a strong anti city bias. Most Long Islanders come from a background of people who used to live in the city but no longer want to for one reason or another. I suspect New Jersey is similar, especially northern New Jersey.

In New York City, the Borough Presidents are weak, the community boards are a joke. When I lived in the city, I felt like I had no local government. The city is so massively big, it felt more like a state within a state then your local city government.

People in the suburbs like having a local Mayor or Town Supervisor who cares about their concerns. It is probably one of the main reasons that there has not been more consolidation in the NYC suburbs.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:38 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by LINative View Post
On Long Island, there is a strong anti city bias. Most Long Islanders come from a background of people who used to live in the city but no longer want to for one reason or another. I suspect New Jersey is similar, especially northern New Jersey.
Hmm. Not sure, but at this point, I thought most Long Islanders are those who grew up "natively" rather than moved from the city, only in the oldest generation do transplants from the city make up a majority. There are also some, like my family on my mom's side who were on Long Island pre-suburbanization. Many of those I grew up with on the island, liked the city and moved there.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:49 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by LINative View Post
That's not quite what happened in Nassau and about half of Suffolk on Long Island, when they consolidated some of the Town police into County Police. Today both counties have some of the most expensive police forces in the United States.

Personally I take most consolidation talk with a grain of salt. It often does not save any money (indeed sometimes the opposite) and it is often pushed by people with some kind of agenda.
Perhaps, the levels of government in NYC suburbs strikes me as excessive. There's state then county, then town and then often an incorporated village. There has to be a lot of duplication there. While I agree the lack of local government in NYC itself is rather extreme, so is the suburban situation. Up here, county government is weak or non-existent. It's really just state and then town here while the state gets a "Taxachusetts" reputation, government costs and spending is quite a bit lower than downstate New York.

One of the sillier situation in the NYC metro is Pelham in Westchester: it's a town of 12,000 people subdivided into two incorporated villages. I get why when you're in the Town of Hempstead with nearly 800,000 people, residents might want a more local government, but a town of 12,000?
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:51 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
NJ has a pattern where there's large municipalities with a lot of poor people, and small municipalities with fewer much wealthier people. And all the municipal governments are more or less corrupt. Thus, people calling for municipal consolidation are usually looking for the wealthy areas to be the piggybanks for the poor ones, since consolidation will leave the wealthy people outvoted. That's really not going to solve anything.
Perhaps, but Hudson County has some small municipalities that are no wealthier than the larger cities. Guttenburg?
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:15 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
Hmm. Not sure, but at this point, I thought most Long Islanders are those who grew up "natively" rather than moved from the city, only in the oldest generation do transplants from the city make up a majority. There are also some, like my family on my mom's side who were on Long Island pre-suburbanization. Many of those I grew up with on the island, liked the city and moved there.
Yeah lol, that's why I said came from a "background". Trying to cover everyone.

But the striking thing about cities in the Northeast, not just NYC but also other parts of the Northeast, is that they were expanding their boundaries throughout the 1800s, then the expansion just stopped. There seems to be a anti-big city attitude among many suburbanites. Its like we want to be close to the city but not part of it.
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
Perhaps, but Hudson County has some small municipalities that are no wealthier than the larger cities. Guttenburg?
I love the town of Guttenburg, they have an awesome mayor.

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Old 02-26-2015, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Yeah lol, that's why I said came from a "background". Trying to cover everyone.

But the striking thing about cities in the Northeast, not just NYC but also other parts of the Northeast, is that they were expanding their boundaries throughout the 1800s, then the expansion just stopped. There seems to be a anti-big city attitude among many suburbanites. Its like we want to be close to the city but not part of it.
That is pretty much my take from New Jersey. The thing I found off what that no city in New Jersey grew to be it's big city before anti-big city people put a stop to its growing cities.

Obviously I am just talking historically because I don't see any towns merging into a big city in NJ today even if they already basically function like one.
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Old 02-26-2015, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
One of the sillier situation in the NYC metro is Pelham in Westchester: it's a town of 12,000 people subdivided into two incorporated villages. I get why when you're in the Town of Hempstead with nearly 800,000 people, residents might want a more local government, but a town of 12,000?
Here in the Pittsburgh area, Allegheny County has 130 different municipalities and a population of 12000 is above average for the county.

People don't care to have to beg politicians downtown to get things done. A small local government is in better position to respond to the citizens. None of them want to give up their independence. There hasn't been a municipality that has merged with another for the past 50 years or longer, and we got our newest municipality in the 80's when Pennsbury Village seceded from Robinson Township. Pennsbury is a condo development that wanted independence. I think its the American way.
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Old 02-26-2015, 07:01 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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That's not really the same situation I described.
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