Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Of the top 10 most populous cities in America based on the 1950's census, LA is the only one to see significant population growth (92% increase in population). The next highest population growth was NYC (3% increase in population).
I mentioned this fact in another forum, but apparently it wasn't very relevant due to LA's geography. Facts are the facts, but they are often accompanied with an asterisk i guess. It's still a fact that Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs in the 2001 Major League Baseball season.
You are right, in my opinion. I have lived in the greater Los Angles area from 1958 to 1962 and from 1966 to the present, a total of almost 53 years. Where I probably differ from most participants in this forum is that I don't think sprawl per se is necessarily a bad thing.
Another poster correctly pointed out that the tremendous distances involved to encompass the whole of the LA Metro area do not mean that everybody has long commutes. In fact the very decentralization that several posters have already correctly pointed out means that it is possible for many people to live relatively close to their workplaces. For the last 20 or so years of my 34-year full-time career, I lived within a 13-minute one way car drive of my worksite.
This is indeed what upsets me about the San Francisco Bay Area. People commute from all over and converge on the same few concentrated areas.. mainly downtown SF and the Silicon Valley. It's particularly bad in San Jose. All of SJ's freeways converge on the downtown, but the jobs are all to the north and west and most of the housing is to the east and south.
Of the top 10 most populous cities in America based on the 1950's census, LA is the only one to see significant population growth (92% increase in population). The next highest population growth was NYC (3% increase in population).
I mentioned this fact in another forum, but apparently it wasn't very relevant due to LA's geography. Facts are the facts, but they are often accompanied with an asterisk i guess. It's still a fact that Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs in the 2001 Major League Baseball season.
At first I was going to say that this was due to continued annexation, but actually, Los Angeles reached 97% of its current size by 1950 Look here for details.
That said, a lot of land within LA city limits was still undeveloped in 1950, including wide swathes of the San Fernando Valley. This did put Los Angeles in a pretty unique position, because few of the "classic" cities in the U.S. had sizable amounts of undeveloped land by this time (Northeast Philadelphia still had a lot, but the growth there merely canceled out the decline in other parts of the city).
It's interesting, because the one place you see California levels of residential density built in the post-automotive era on the East Coast is South Florida. The actual developable area was quite narrow, sandwiched between the coast and the Everglades. As such, you see first a rather tight early suburban grid, and then a movement to unwalkable suburban road patterns, but with essentially no yards. Presumably more land is now left undeveloped because the water table is just too high to build on entire megablocks without some wetland for rain absorption.
At first I was going to say that this was due to continued annexation, but actually, Los Angeles reached 97% of its current size by 1950 Look here for details.
That said, a lot of land within LA city limits was still undeveloped in 1950, including wide swathes of the San Fernando Valley. This did put Los Angeles in a pretty unique position, because few of the "classic" cities in the U.S. had sizable amounts of undeveloped land by this time (Northeast Philadelphia still had a lot, but the growth there merely canceled out the decline in other parts of the city).
Thanks for that explanation. It was helpful to someone who is not that familiar with LA's growth patterns over the past 60 years.
the tremendous sprawl is fairly irrelevant in the lives of most people because they so rarely need to go all the way across it. . . . for me to drive 30 miles one-way is relatively rare. . . . My own immediate neighborhood is very walkable.
This was our experience of L.A., too. It's more a conglomeration of a bunch of medium-density small cities than one giant sprawling thing.
My brother and his family live on the east side of L.A., within fifteen minutes of both his and his wife's work; they essentially never go to the west side (many people who live in the city and county of L.A. only hit the beach every few years). I knew people who lived in the LAX area who would talk about "going into the city" basically whenever they left Westchester. I lived in Palms, right next to Culver City, and in the one mile radius around my apartment there were at least two grocery stores (Ralph's and Trader Joe's), theaters (movie and live), almost any kind of restaurant imaginable, clothing and shoe shops, doctors, museums, basically anything I needed. I did take the bus to school and work, and sometimes drove for entertainment destinations or specialty shopping. But I could walk for more of my basic necessities than anywhere else I've ever lived.
This was our experience of L.A., too. It's more a conglomeration of a bunch of medium-density small cities than one giant sprawling thing.
My brother and his family live on the east side of L.A., within fifteen minutes of both his and his wife's work; they essentially never go to the west side (many people who live in the city and county of L.A. only hit the beach every few years). I knew people who lived in the LAX area who would talk about "going into the city" basically whenever they left Westchester. I lived in Palms, right next to Culver City, and in the one mile radius around my apartment there were at least two grocery stores (Ralph's and Trader Joe's), theaters (movie and live), almost any kind of restaurant imaginable, clothing and shoe shops, doctors, museums, basically anything I needed. I did take the bus to school and work, and sometimes drove for entertainment destinations or specialty shopping. But I could walk for more of my basic necessities than anywhere else I've ever lived.
LA is very walkable in parts and certainly has the density to support a lot more walkable neighborhoods but the problem, I think, is in how those parts are connected to each other and the usually hostile ped environments outside of those walkable areas (wide, busy roads with lots of curb cuts, long blocks, etc)
The point you made about not going to other parts of LA is fairly common in most larger metros. I grew up in and around NYC, mostly on the NJ side and I've been to Long Island 4x in my life. I would go to CT once every other year to visit a great aunt who lived near New Haven. For the most part, aside from going into the city, my life was lived within 10 miles of my house.
In the Philly area there is an antagonistic PA/South Jersey relationship and the Delaware River is a major psychological barrier. People from both sides go into the city but, generally, people from the suburban PA counties only cross the river to get to the beach.
In Brisbane a similar relationship existed between those north and south of the river but it seemed to be more of a class divide built into it. In any case, as in Philly, people crossed the river to go into the CBD or for jobs just outside of it but not for much else.
In the Bay Area everyone goes into SF at least occasionally and perhaps daily for work - and there are major flows from the east bay to the peninsula for work but outside of the commute people seem to mainly stick to their side of the Bay.
Well, no. I didn't know what you meant. Still don't, actually. A "post"-autocentric era? What in the heck is that? When are you alleging that it started?
This was our experience of L.A., too. It's more a conglomeration of a bunch of medium-density small cities than one giant sprawling thing.
My brother and his family live on the east side of L.A., within fifteen minutes of both his and his wife's work; they essentially never go to the west side (many people who live in the city and county of L.A. only hit the beach every few years). I knew people who lived in the LAX area who would talk about "going into the city" basically whenever they left Westchester. I lived in Palms, right next to Culver City, and in the one mile radius around my apartment there were at least two grocery stores (Ralph's and Trader Joe's), theaters (movie and live), almost any kind of restaurant imaginable, clothing and shoe shops, doctors, museums, basically anything I needed. I did take the bus to school and work, and sometimes drove for entertainment destinations or specialty shopping. But I could walk for more of my basic necessities than anywhere else I've ever lived.
Palms really isn't medium density though. Not by general standards. It's at about 25,000 people per square mile thanks to all of those 12-20 unit medium sized apartment buildings. That's a neighborhood density that roughly 10% of all Angelinos have. By the numbers, it is walkable. And then you walk it. You go down Venice where a lot of the commercial activity is and you notice a ton of vehicular traffic using a 6 lane road. You see a lot of offstreet parking everywhere and standalone/recessed commercial buildings. It's entirely possible to get around on foot. The problem is that it's not very inviting to do so. And relatively few people do, considering the number of people in the area and the pedestrian-friendly weather.
Density in that particular case isn't the issue as much as how that density was constructed. It's "paper denisty". A lot of LA is that way.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
??
