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Old 03-02-2015, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,872 posts, read 13,576,790 times
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So, in other words, this thread you started isn't at all about "urban planning" and "the disappearance of suburbia" at all. It's just about people you don't approve of.
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Old 03-02-2015, 09:25 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,744,612 times
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A huge percentage of our developed land is mostly low density suburbia... the suburbs are here to stay, it would take centuries to "urbanize" the suburbs.... people see a couple apartment buildings being built and say "omg the suburbs are becoming more urban and dense!!"

However if you want to really urbanize the suburbs you would have to literally demolish whole neighborhoods or squeeze more houses in between existing homes... both of which would never happen on a large scale.
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Old 03-02-2015, 10:13 PM
 
Location: bend oregon
930 posts, read 846,305 times
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you could urbanize the suburbs with light rail, that might cost too much or people wont want it.
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Old 03-02-2015, 11:21 PM
 
5,076 posts, read 8,527,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl View Post
So, in other words, this thread you started isn't at all about "urban planning" and "the disappearance of suburbia" at all. It's just about people you don't approve of.
And more importantly, not wanting to pay the actual market price of avoiding them. There are a lot of suburbs with little risk of turning into section 8 slums, but they're priced accordingly.
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Old 03-03-2015, 12:32 AM
 
312 posts, read 360,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drum bro View Post
you could urbanize the suburbs with light rail, that might cost too much or people wont want it.
Why do people want to urbanize everything? Why is urbanity the only viable option?

The suburbs represent homogeneity. They were never intended to be anything else. Cities are where different people mix, some people like myself value a homogenous community.
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Old 03-03-2015, 01:04 AM
 
312 posts, read 360,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl View Post
So, in other words, this thread you started isn't at all about "urban planning" and "the disappearance of suburbia" at all. It's just about people you don't approve of.
The whole reason for modern suburbs is to avoid the associated ills of the city. Welfare case gangster types and new immigrants are the realm of the city. People spend the money to avoid that.

It's like this: imagine you buy a home for $400k in an area walking distance to a school that would be a good fit for your child and then 2 weeks before school starts there is a redistricting and now your kid has to get on the school bus and go 6 miles away instead of being 3 blocks away like you paid for.

People who moved to these suburbs paid specifically to be in a community with people who are favorable to them, if who your neighbors are aren't a valid concern then why don't you move into a trailer park with every other resident beside you are sex offenders?

If I specifically choose a community where everyone is in the same social class as me, has a similar worldview etc. it's because that's how I choose to live and I'm entitled to that life choice. If the community changes because of a collective shift on the part of the community that is one thing, it is another thing if the community changes into something the existing residents feel uncomfortable with because an external push is causing that change. That takes away someone rights to their own choices.

In another way think of this, a small farming community exists 30 minutes outside a city and a developer wants to put 2000 houses there. These farmers don't want to move and they want to live in a farming community, not a suburb so tactics are used to "change their minds" like developing all the land they can get their hands on so that now your 300 year old dairy farm is surrounded on all sides by a suburb. You didn't want to sell and move to another farming community, but now since your world has been destroyed without your consent you can either choose to sell or live with a lower quality of life.

An example of that is - I had cousins growing up that lived in Florida in the kind of suburb I envy. Nice sprawling gated community - no sidewalks; and the only time you saw people is when they pulled out of their garage..a perfect way of life for me.

It was all previously farmland, some farms that had probably been around since Europeans first settled the area. One farmer didn't want to sell I guess, so he had a cowfield smushed between two big communties with thousands of people. People used that Cowfield as a place to bring girls to screw around, to have bonfires, and in the rainy Florida summer they would come early in the morning to pick hallucinogenic mushrooms that grow from the right combo of cow poo, rain and the bacteria in FL soil. The farmer obviously had an issue because he put up a big razor wire fence, but the fact that he had too because his community was stolen from him and affected his quality of life is insane. He just wanted to live in his farm unmolested but instead he was forced by the engineering of others (like rezoning from agricultural to residential( the extension of city water pipes, and the annexation (voted in by the new comers of course) to the city which probably raised his taxes exponentially.

He wanted to live on a farm in the country, not a suburb but that choice was taken from him. Just as I want to be in a middle income place with a homogenous group if people and that option is being taken from me because some starry eyed kids want to live walking distance to the bar.
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Old 03-03-2015, 01:49 AM
 
312 posts, read 360,788 times
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Quote:
young people and millennials are increasingly choosing urban living

Is that true? Are they choosing it? Or are they doing what all young people do which is try to be trendy so they are doing it because apparently everyone else is doing it. That sounds like an ad canpaign to me. Young professionals have money to spend and it's easier to market and sell a product to people who concentrated in a small area. It's more cost efficient to have your consumer base completely in Williamsburg as opposed fanned out across the tri-state.

Young people actually like living in the suburbs, that's why they move into the city and turn their area into suburbs. A concentrated area of upper class whites with disposable income who want crime free streets and retail that is geared high end.

If young people liked living in cities they would want to step over disposed dirty needles in the street and hear gunshots at night. If they liked living in cities they would enjoy rushing home at 5pm as soon as work is over so they get home before dark. If they liked living in cities women would want to have to need a male chaperone to walk them to the store if they absolutely needed something at night time because a woman walking with a man is less likely to get assaulted. If they likes living in cities they would enjoy keeping "mugger money" and an credit card ready in thier pocket like a toll while keeping their actual cash and plastic in their undies/bra/sock so the expected mugging a couple of times avyear wasn't that much of a blow.


That's city living..

They like suburban living, but it's easier to get their money when they are sll in one location so they bring the burbs to the city and vice versa
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Old 03-03-2015, 04:49 AM
 
Location: bend oregon
930 posts, read 846,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clampdown69 View Post
Why do people want to urbanize everything? Why is urbanity the only viable option?

The suburbs represent homogeneity. They were never intended to be anything else. Cities are where different people mix, some people like myself value a homogenous community.

because people want to be able to get somewhere without being on a crowded bus and have to walk a few miles to the bus stop, or its better riding a bike on a bike trail instead of the sidewalk
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Old 03-03-2015, 05:20 AM
 
478 posts, read 650,167 times
Reputation: 492
Quote:
Is that true? Are they choosing it? Or are they doing what all young people do which is try to be trendy so they are doing it because apparently everyone else is doing it. That sounds like an ad canpaign to me. Young professionals have money to spend and it's easier to market and sell a product to people who concentrated in a small area. It's more cost efficient to have your consumer base completely in Williamsburg as opposed fanned out across the tri-state.

Young people actually like living in the suburbs, that's why they move into the city and turn their area into suburbs. A concentrated area of upper class whites with disposable income who want crime free streets and retail that is geared high end.
Yes, by and large they are choosing it. You contend that an a secret campaign by marketers is somehow tricking young people into moving into areas they don't really want to move?

Yes, we like moving into the city because we want to live in an area of upper class whites and crime free streets. Of course, that's what's behind it. We secretly want to live in a suburb and so prize apartments near mass transit subway stations and bus lines, value walkable neighborhoods, in many cases live with unrelated roommates to make rent, and in fact branch out all across the city to find a place with just the economic/cultural/location mix that we want and can afford: not all 'yuppies' choose to live in Williamsburg. It's a conspiracy!

Concerning your "right" to a homogenous community (meaning no poor people in sight): they're out there. Plenty of them. Look into Alpine NJ? How about Upper Saddle River, or Greenwich CT near the water? You have to pay for them. If somebody thinks that a $100K household income is gonna insulate them from any exposure to "poor people" in the tri-state, or anywhere really, they're delusional. Are there some solid middle class 'nabes in the burbs left sure. But they aren't cheap, even if not as expensive as those upper-crust places I just mentioned.
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:56 AM
 
1,998 posts, read 2,938,496 times
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There's nothing "unfair" about not being able to live wherever you want at a low price. I'd love to live in a penthouse apartment in Manhattan for 100k but it ain't going to happen.
There is no right to get to live in a middle-class homogenous suburban gated community with no sidewalks or public transit. Those obviously exist but if they change over time and become less desirable to you, no wrong has been committed against you because that would imply you have a right to get to have your neighborhood preserved in amber. That's a right that doesn't exist.
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