U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-01-2015, 10:15 AM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,004,178 times
Reputation: 1348

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
You left out a few stats:
Americans' commutes aren't getting longer
About 8% commute for >60 minutes.
"According to the Census, about one out of five workers with hour-plus commutes use transit. Only 61% of workers with long commutes drove to work alone, compared with 80% for all workers who work outside the home.

"The average travel time for workers who commute by public transportation is higher than that of workers who use other modes," said Census Bureau statistician Brian McKenzie. "

My info came from a more recent Community Survey-2011.
Look, the point I made was that most commuters are driving and doing so alone. What I was originally replying to started with Boticcelli making an assertion about "wasted hours sitting behind the steering wheels," to which Hemlock replied with his personal experience. I wanted to clarify that, while Hemlock's experience sounds great, it is not the norm in the US. That was it. End of story.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-01-2015, 07:00 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,990 posts, read 102,554,590 times
Reputation: 33058
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
Look, the point I made was that most commuters are driving and doing so alone. What I was originally replying to started with Boticcelli making an assertion about "wasted hours sitting behind the steering wheels," to which Hemlock replied with his personal experience. I wanted to clarify that, while Hemlock's experience sounds great, it is not the norm in the US. That was it. End of story.
You went to some extent to discuss people commuting > 90 min, which is a tiny minority of commuters.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2015, 07:33 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,819,994 times
Reputation: 9769
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
I agree with you, but having little to no commute also has a dollar cost. In many cities, living close enough to work to walk, bike or take public transportation carries a significant increase in housing costs. This cost may exceed the cost of commuting by car on an annual basis.
Oh yeah. For instance, let's suppose I were to drive to my office in Manhattan. About 17 miles. Use the IRS rate of 57.5 cents per mile, plus tolls and parking. Parking is ~$500/month, tolls are $11.75/day, call it 21 days a month.
34 miles * 57.5 cents per mule * 21 days = $410
11.75 * 21 = 246.75
$500 parking.

So, call it $1150 a month to drive. I'm currently paying about $3000/month for my 4BR house with garage. Care to guess how much house you can get in walking distance of my office for $4150/month, or $4035/month within short public transit distance (the reduction accounts for metrocard cost)? No house, but you can rent a 2BR apartment.
(there's also a tax disadvantage of several hundred dollars, but that's a separate subject)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2015, 08:02 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,901,398 times
Reputation: 18049
I trillion .My guess that individually with cost what they are in any large well maintain city it would cost those people even more. Its about individual cost .No one wants to live in City Ghetto like in past. Compacting people leads to conflict which lead to cost.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2015, 06:41 AM
 
6,635 posts, read 4,594,798 times
Reputation: 13349
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Oh yeah. For instance, let's suppose I were to drive to my office in Manhattan. About 17 miles. Use the IRS rate of 57.5 cents per mile, plus tolls and parking. Parking is ~$500/month, tolls are $11.75/day, call it 21 days a month.
34 miles * 57.5 cents per mule * 21 days = $410
11.75 * 21 = 246.75
$500 parking.

So, call it $1150 a month to drive. I'm currently paying about $3000/month for my 4BR house with garage. Care to guess how much house you can get in walking distance of my office for $4150/month, or $4035/month within short public transit distance (the reduction accounts for metrocard cost)? No house, but you can rent a 2BR apartment.
(there's also a tax disadvantage of several hundred dollars, but that's a separate subject)
Exactly. You're going to spend the money one way or another so it's rather disingenuous that some people couch the discussion as "waste money on a car" or "save money by living in the city". Thanks for a real world example of the reality.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2015, 08:50 AM
 
1,915 posts, read 2,048,279 times
Reputation: 2192
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
How are tenements the alternative to the suburbs? This fallacy wipes out all nuance because it leaves no room for obvious flaws in the argument like inner-ring suburbs/streetcar suburbs, townhouses, and all kinds of middling densities.

The only options are not St. Charles, MO or Shanghai, China. The only realities are not Leave-it-to-Beaver perfect suburban tracts or 1980s New York. Lots of suburbs with high crime and terrible schools. Lots of moderate density cities with low crime.
For a good many areas, those *are* the only options. As for the places with more options, more power to them, and get the hell out of the developers' way so more can be built.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2015, 08:56 AM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,004,178 times
Reputation: 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
You went to some extent to discuss people commuting > 90 min, which is a tiny minority of commuters.
...Which was in service of supporting the reality that most commuters drive and do so alone. The numbers you presented do not dispute that explicitly stated hypothesis, so I'm (trying and) failing to understand the point of your counter-argument.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2015, 09:04 AM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,004,178 times
Reputation: 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB1967 View Post
For a good many areas, those *are* the only options.
True as that may be in some places, the reality is that that is not a universal truth or, even, a majority truth in the US and, as such, we must not treat the argument as if there are only two options in the world. The portrayal of moderate and up density as tenements is unrealistic and an undeserved disservice to the discussion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2015, 09:05 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,990 posts, read 102,554,590 times
Reputation: 33058
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
...Which was in service of supporting the reality that most commuters drive and do so alone. The numbers you presented do not dispute that explicitly stated hypothesis, so I'm (trying and) failing to understand the point of your counter-argument.
Perhaps if you read my posts, and specifically my links, you'd get it.

Fewer people with long commutes drive alone; more take public transportation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2015, 09:14 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,986 posts, read 41,937,844 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
Perhaps if you read my posts, and specifically my links, you'd get it.

Fewer people with long commutes drive alone; more take public transportation.
If nationwide, it's partially because the NYC metro has a high share of very long commutes, and of those many of those are public transit commutes (Manhattan-bound).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top