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Old 05-23-2015, 10:48 AM
 
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I think as we see Boomers continue to retire it will have a effect of more going more rural since its 26% of population. That also means other coming with those who move outward to service their needs. Even now here in Texas we see most per cent age growth going to a large number of smaller tons often revived by the trend. Notice the other day that the town with largest per cent age of millionaires is a town called Fredericksburg that was basically small town with mostly boarded up store front in 1979. Now its booming as are many similar town like it.
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Old 05-23-2015, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susankate View Post
Here in Australia, the majority of inner ring suburbs in most of the state capitals (which are also the largest cities) are very popular. Although many have been gentifried, many of them are still quite multicultural (in the larger cities anyway).
Suburbs in Australia means something different than the in the US though. I think in Australia it means anything outside the CBD? In the USA, inner ring suburbs typically refer to those that were built up between about 1920 and 1960, usually the last parts of a metro to be built on a street grid before the curvilinear pattern took over. They might have a retail strip oriented along an old streetcar line, or at least some strip mall type retail along a main road, for example Redford, MI; Richfield, MN; North Miami, FL; Drexel Hill, PA.
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Old 05-24-2015, 01:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by memph View Post
Suburbs in Australia means something different than the in the US though. I think in Australia it means anything outside the CBD? In the USA, inner ring suburbs typically refer to those that were built up between about 1920 and 1960, usually the last parts of a metro to be built on a street grid before the curvilinear pattern took over. They might have a retail strip oriented along an old streetcar line, or at least some strip mall type retail along a main road, for example Redford, MI; Richfield, MN; North Miami, FL; Drexel Hill, PA.
In both Sydney and Melbourne, I was thinking "inner west" which, in both cities. were very working class up until 30-40 years ago and some of the suburbs have only really taken off in the last few decades. Both cities are so sprawling that people want the convenience of being close to town. Also the "flow on" effect from other suburbs had flowed on so much that most inner city suburbs are now popular.

Examples of suburbs in both cities that were a bit down at heel 20 years ago:

https://www.realestate.com.au/neighb...scray-3011-vic
Footscray, Victoria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://www.realestate.com.au/neighb...field-2131-nsw
Ashfield, New South Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sydney's most congested road (and many would say most hideous road) is Parramatta Road which is full of car yards and has many abandoned shops (as one can see from the first link):

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place...d55928!6m1!1e1

Parramatta Road - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, looking at the suburbs that surround Parramatta Road (see bottom of Wikipedia page), the suburbs where Parramatta Rd forms the southern boundary have been popular for a longer time than the suburbs where Parramatta Road forms the northern boundary. The suburb after which the road is named, Parramatta, has become popular in recent years.

Parramatta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://www.realestate.com.au/neighb...matta-2150-nsw

I chose Ashfield, Parramatta and Footscray as examples as they were never considered popular places to live in the past.

The other thing about the inner city suburbs is that they are very multicultural which is what gives them their charm. Our struggling areas are those on the outer edges of the city (near Liverpool and Blacktown).

As for the other capital cities, from what I remember of Brisbane's inner city suburbs, they seem to be very popular now. Again, it is the outer suburbs that are the least salubrious (an example being Logan City between Brisbane and the Gold Coast).

However, country areas just outside the major cities are popular. Also in regards to Sydney - the Central Coast, Newcastle and Wollongong are reaping the benefits of Sydney's congestion.

One of the things about Sydney is that it can't really sprawl out that much further as its southern and northern boundaries are national parks and its western boundary is the Blue Mountains. It can extend a bit southwest but at present, those towns just south west of Sydney beyond Campbelltown are home to acreage properties and a little further south are the salubrious Southern Highlands.

Last edited by susankate; 05-24-2015 at 02:08 AM..
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Old 05-24-2015, 08:44 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
Suburbs in Australia means something different than the in the US though. I think in Australia it means anything outside the CBD? In the USA, inner ring suburbs typically refer to those that were built up between about 1920 and 1960, usually the last parts of a metro to be built on a street grid before the curvilinear pattern took over. They might have a retail strip oriented along an old streetcar line, or at least some strip mall type retail along a main road, for example Redford, MI; Richfield, MN; North Miami, FL; Drexel Hill, PA.
Denver-founded 1858, not as "new" as some here like to think
"Inner-ring" suburbs, all with a border with Denver, clockwise from the north:
Commerce City: 1876
Aurora: 1891 (incorporation date)
Greenwood Village: 1865-66
Cherry Hills Village: 1939 (Incorporated 1945)
Englewood: 1860, incorporated 1903
Sheridan: 1859, incorporated 1890
Lakewood: 1889 (incorporated 1969)
Wheat Ridge: 1850s (incorporated 1969)
Mountain View: A tiny place, north of Wheat Ridge, probably around the same time. (Can't find anything on Google)

Pittsburgh likewise has some old burbs. I'll let eschaton research them.
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
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Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
Really great analysis of inner-ring suburbs from a midwest perspective. Why they're declining, and how they're different.

I'm obviously going to disagree with their go-to "white flight" narrative but I'd just be disagreeing with the cause and effect. The racial component is obvious to anyone familiar with these kinds of suburbs.

The Complications of Our Deteriorating Inner Ring Suburbs | Belt Magazine | Dispatches From The Rust Belt

The suburbs that seem to be falling victim to quick decline (and the subsequent racial divides) are the ones that had most of their housing built between the end of World War II and 1959. About 60 percent of Ferguson’s housing was built in that time frame, meaning that these old houses are now wearing out all at once, hitting the point where they are not appealing to most new home buyers, regardless of race.

“It’s a real conundrum right now,” says Jason Segedy, director of the Akron Metropolitan Area Transportation Study, a regional planning organization. “These houses are getting old and they were never really houses that had any character. Now they are small, and the heating and plumbing and roofs are getting to the age where they have to be updated. But no one wants to take on that cost when they have so many other choices.

“Here in the Cleveland area,” he continues, “you can look at Euclid and Garfield Heights and see the houses are not old enough to be completely decrepit and vacant yet, but most of them are not owner-occupied anymore — they are rentals that are getting crappier and crappier over time because they are aging and it is not economically viable to rehab them. But you can see where 20 years from now, unless these cities find a way to build new housing, half of their housing might be abandoned.
That's the problem with a Midwest perspective; what happens on the West Coast and the East Coast cannot really compare to what is occurring in the Rust Belt. I can speak on Akron, since I grew up there. Akron removed a lot of their housing projects and expanded Section 8 into suburbia in the nineties. You could live in those suburbs, but the housing with a lot of character are within the city limits. The inner city is not that bad in Akron, as opposed to the situation in Cleveland, so the incentive to move to suburbia is not quite as great there.

The only reason to live in suburbia in Akron is the schools. APS was never that great to begin with, and this is going back to the seventies and eighties; it may have been okay before then, although there were other issues, like segregation, back then. On top of this there are mansions inside of the city limits and a lot of variety in housing in some neighborhoods, and extremely small houses in other neighborhoods, and you might not get a driveway or a garage in those neighborhoods.

As far as Cleveland, the gentrification downtown may eventually expand out into the West and East side of the city. Not sure about Euclid and Garfield Heights, but suburbia is not as desirable, nor as necessary (White Flight) as it was 20 years ago. You have more people living downtown than you do in some other neighborhoods, and there is still a lot of blight in Cleveland. Their issue is encouraging people to live in their neighborhoods, because there isn't enough room to house the city downtown and there are no indications that Cleveland will ever redevelop itself in order to expand their urban look and feel of downtown into their neighborhoods. The prices downtown are too high for the average resident anyway.

On the other hand Cleveland has dense suburbs like Lakewood whose high rises are on par with what is going on downtown. Lakewood's density is the highest of any city in Ohio, so I doubt they're having any issues.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:04 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Denver-founded 1858, not as "new" as some here like to think
"Inner-ring" suburbs, all with a border with Denver, clockwise from the north:
Commerce City: 1876
Aurora: 1891 (incorporation date)
Greenwood Village: 1865-66
Cherry Hills Village: 1939 (Incorporated 1945)
Englewood: 1860, incorporated 1903
Sheridan: 1859, incorporated 1890
Lakewood: 1889 (incorporated 1969)
Wheat Ridge: 1850s (incorporated 1969)
Mountain View: A tiny place, north of Wheat Ridge, probably around the same time. (Can't find anything on Google)

Pittsburgh likewise has some old burbs. I'll let eschaton research them.
Going through a few of the Colorado list, those dates are just the founding date, but the population was tiny for a while, so little of the development dates from that era. Aurora had less than 1,000 people in 1920. The founding date isn't a good indicator on how old the place is.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:16 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by susankate View Post
In both Sydney and Melbourne, I was thinking "inner west" which, in both cities. were very working class up until 30-40 years ago and some of the suburbs have only really taken off in the last few decades. Both cities are so sprawling that people want the convenience of being close to town. Also the "flow on" effect from other suburbs had flowed on so much that most inner city suburbs are now popular.
Yes, your examples show the difference in language. Some of your "inner suburb" examples are within a few miles of downtown — they'd usually be within in the city limits, rather urban and not called suburbs. "Inner city suburbs" read as a contradiction.
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:25 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Going through a few of the Colorado list, those dates are just the founding date, but the population was tiny for a while, so little of the development dates from that era. Aurora had less than 1,000 people in 1920. The founding date isn't a good indicator on how old the place is.
Sigh! Sure. Little Louisville, not "inner-ring" to any place, by a long shot, was founded in 1878. In 1880 it had 450 people. It had a downtown. It was on a grid, supposedly the "litmus test" (of something). By 1910 it had 1706, 2000 by 1940. It stayed around there until 1980, when it had almost 6000. Now, it has about 20,000.

Wheat Ridge is a very old burb on the west side. It's hard to find population stats from before it incorporated, but by 1970 had ~30,000 people. It's on the grid. It's had a hospital since it opened as a TB sanitarium in 1905.
Wheat Ridge, Colorado - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Exempla Lutheran Medical Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Englewood is another old burb on the south side.
Its hospital, Swedish Medical Center, was also established in 1905.
Swedish Medical Center (Colorado) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is hard to tell when you have crossed the border from Denver to either one of these cities without a sign.

I'm truly not sure of the point. Do you have any comparisons between these suburbs and these supposedly legitimate "inner-ring" suburbs over time?
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Old 05-25-2015, 04:18 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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No, I dont have any comparisons, that has nothing to do with my post, which was discussing age. Why would you expect any other point? Neither did memph's post you replied. I don't see how any of them are very old, and the founding date mostly reflect the date of settlement of the region, so it doesn't mean much
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Old 05-25-2015, 07:02 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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^^So what is your point? I'm the only person on this thread to make the effort to look this stuff up for my city. No one else has posted a word on when their suburbs were founded. The western and southern suburbs of Denver in particular are older. You wouldn't know you'd crossed the city line w/o a road sign.
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