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All metro areas in every city listed has sprawl, but within the city limits many don't cover a large area including Miami.
It just seems like the urbanization is fairly uniform throughout the metro. Like LA, Miami is dense (but not very dense anywhere) across its whole area.
Haven't been there for awhile, but in the city if Miami there were lots of neighborhoods (partiucularly in the NW part of the city), that had streets with no curbs or sidewalks and little or no street lighting. There were apartment buildings, but all were low-rise and had large gravel parking lots. Many city business areas consisted of gas stations and 7-11s, no other retail. There was very little parkland within the city limits (Bayfront is the only one that comes to mind). Looked a lot like a third world country's version of urban, not like a 20th or 21st century American city.
Below are the factors that determine the 'urbanity' of any given city for me personally:
1) Density of population
2) Walkability - a true urban environment has to have well planned streets and public areas, which means parks, shopping areas, business areas, restaurants, places to go out, exercise, play with children.
3) Great public transportation AND lots of people actually using it as opposed to personal transport.
4) Large number of people actually living in these urban areas and not just driving there for work and play. Basically, it's not enough to just have a nice looking downtown or other urban areas, but you have to see the people on the streets for it to be considered urban.
5) Families living in the city core. Although there are not many families preferring to live in the urban environments older cities or cities that are better planned have larger percentage of people with children living in the 'core' area than newer cities where downtown areas are considered up and coming and attract mainly and largely young professionals, retiring empty-nesters, gays and students.
Based on that criteria I'd say these are the truly urban cities from the ones that I've visited: NYC, Washington DC, Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle.
Other cities I've visited that definitely look urban and qualify for at least 3 categories are Miami, San Diego, Denver, Dallas. I haven't visited Philli, so can't comment.
IMO, Miami, San Diego and Denver don't have enough of factors to consider them truly urban areas. I think San Diego and Denver lack people actually living in their downtown or urban areas. These seemed to me to be less populated and even dead although they may be nicely planned and ready to embrace the large number of people walking down the streets. Both have new attractive restaurant row areas, but not enough people to actually make it looked 'lived in'. There are also some areas nearby that look clearly run-down, so for these cities the urbanity is still 'up and coming' and hence their downtown areas would be considered up and coming. Dallas actually has more of a populated and vibrant urban area IMO although it's not really known for its urbanity. LA has quite a few urban, densely populated and walkable areas, but overall, it's definitely oriented towards the car culture with the public transportation clearly lagging behind. Besides, it's too spread out and IMO consists of several distinct cities (or villages) as opposed to having one core-city center.
Oh yes, and the skyline and high-rise buildings are not necessarily what makes a given city urban. It just makes it look urban, but appearances can be deceiving. Densely populated and walkable residential low-rise areas of some cities like SF and DC have more urban feel to me than the skyscraper ridden dead downtowns.
Well, that's true, but the other side of the coin is that DC has no industrial areas which also take up lots of land in many American cities. It may well be a wash!
Just got back from a trip; time to jump in the fray again. DC does have many office complexes for the workers of private government contractors, but I guess mainly in the burbs. Though I question how many factories are in the heart of the other cities. Even in Pittsburgh, most of the mills are/were in mill towns outside the city. The exception is the South Side.
There is too much hype about density IMO. Most families want a home near a park where their children can play, a school that is not too far away, a nice confy house, secluded from crowds and noise. Those things are impossible to find in a high urban setting. A downtown is ok for weekend visits only. Most Job locations nowdays here in Houston have big "campuses" where people have no-hassle parking, cafeterias, etc. No density required. Even in Europe, people are doing everything possible to get away from urban areas, for the same reasons mentioned above. They have become very irate at the fact that they have to hear their neighbors toilet being flushed, tvs being on late at night, and a whole bunch of other incoveniences I rather not mention.
There is too much hype about density IMO. Most families want a home near a park where their children can play, a school that is not too far away, a nice confy house, secluded from crowds and noise. Those things are impossible to find in a high urban setting. A downtown is ok for weekend visits only. Most Job locations nowdays here in Houston have big "campuses" where people have no-hassle parking, cafeterias, etc. No density required. Even in Europe, people are doing everything possible to get away from urban areas, for the same reasons mentioned above. They have become very irate at the fact that they have to hear their neighbors toilet being flushed, tvs being on late at night, and a whole bunch of other incoveniences I rather not mention.
yup, urban was never meant to be pretty. its not spacious or family friendly... its convenient....that's why its urban.......
There is too much hype about density IMO. Most families want a home near a park where their children can play, a school that is not too far away, a nice confy house, secluded from crowds and noise. Those things are impossible to find in a high urban setting. A downtown is ok for weekend visits only. Most Job locations nowdays here in Houston have big "campuses" where people have no-hassle parking, cafeterias, etc. No density required. Even in Europe, people are doing everything possible to get away from urban areas, for the same reasons mentioned above. They have become very irate at the fact that they have to hear their neighbors toilet being flushed, tvs being on late at night, and a whole bunch of other incoveniences I rather not mention.
Urban, doesn't necessarily mean living in an apartment with the dry-wall separating you and your neighbor. You can have a single family house even with the backyard in most of the large cities in the rather walkable urban areas. There are other options too, like rowhouses and older townhomes separated from neighbors by the brick walls where you definitely won't hear your neighbor flushing the toilet. Some new luxury condo towers are also built with consideration to noise reduction and have special windows blocking traffic noise and even concrete walls separating neighboring units. If you can afford it, there are options to live in the city and have your space too.
On the other hand, my suburban house is a few feet away from my neighbors on both sides. If I or my neighbors decide to turn on our surround sound systems, we'll hear each other even with windows closed. If windows are open, forget about it, you'll hear everything, conversations, TV, etc. I am not even going to mention if any of the neighbors on all sides decide to have a pool party or a house party or mow their lawn or have their kids play in the back or front yards. I hear EVERYTHING, their kids, their dogs, their cars going by, my windows face their backyards and I can see them doing whatever they do in their backyards, so privacy is not as spectacular in most of the modern burbs as some may think. You'd have to move to a more rural/foresty place in order to truly be away from people enough to not hear anything.
There is too much hype about density IMO. Most families want a home near a park where their children can play, a school that is not too far away, a nice confy house, secluded from crowds and noise. Those things are impossible to find in a high urban setting. A downtown is ok for weekend visits only. Most Job locations nowdays here in Houston have big "campuses" where people have no-hassle parking, cafeterias, etc. No density required. Even in Europe, people are doing everything possible to get away from urban areas, for the same reasons mentioned above. They have become very irate at the fact that they have to hear their neighbors toilet being flushed, tvs being on late at night, and a whole bunch of other incoveniences I rather not mention.
Perhaps where you live. Here in the Twin Cities, housing values in urban neighborhoods like mine have increased faster than the suburbs. My neighborhood is right smack dab in the center of an urban area of 3.2 million.
In my neighborhood, most kids are able to walk or ride their bikes to school, whether public, private or parochial. Yes, the side of my house is about 10 feet from my neighbors, but we usually don't hear anything (and they have 4 boisterous little kids!) Our streets are tree-lined with sidewalks. We are less than 6 blocks from groceries, drug stores, fast food, upscale dining, a movie theater, library, playgound, soccer field, hockey rink, health and dental clinics, book stores, etc. We can be on the light rail in minutes to take us to a Twins or Vikes game, to the airport, to the Mall of America, to the Warehouse District (drinking & dining) or to downtown Minneapolis. Along the major streets, new condos are being built and people are moving in from the burbs due to the convenience of the location.
This is what density does for us.
Yes, we have those suburban office parks here too, unfortunately. My wife's employer moved her work unit out to one a few years ago. Now, taking public transit is possible, but is extremely arduous so she must drive, which she'd rather not do. My employer is still downtown, so my commute is a 25 minute bus ride. My employer has a cafeteria for us, but we like walking to the many interesting reatuarants within a few blocks of our building. When you work in the burbs, you are captive in your building for lunch unless you take your car.
BTW, even here in our metro, many people are of your mindset. They rarely come into the city and assume all of us who live here would rather live where they live!
yup, urban was never meant to be pretty. its not spacious or family friendly... its convenient....that's why its urban.......
Funny, I wouldn't say 'urban' living is always convenient, sometimes it is though. I don't think being passed by a full express train 2 times in a row and an empty broken down one is convenient at all. Sometimes all of this glorious density blows and I just want to get in a car and be there.
Just because there is no real urban area in Houston doesn't mean people in the rest of America don't want to live in urban areas. Lots and lots of famlies are raised in America's cities. I see it all the time in NYC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester
There is too much hype about density IMO. Most families want a home near a park where their children can play, a school that is not too far away, a nice confy house, secluded from crowds and noise. Those things are impossible to find in a high urban setting. A downtown is ok for weekend visits only. Most Job locations nowdays here in Houston have big "campuses" where people have no-hassle parking, cafeterias, etc. No density required. Even in Europe, people are doing everything possible to get away from urban areas, for the same reasons mentioned above. They have become very irate at the fact that they have to hear their neighbors toilet being flushed, tvs being on late at night, and a whole bunch of other incoveniences I rather not mention.
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