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Old 02-05-2016, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,669 posts, read 24,806,479 times
Reputation: 18894

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The commies are also excellent at public transportation. They just are. Prague and Moscow both have some of the best transit in the world. Prague is also exceptional in that it's damn near free to use. Monthly pass is about $20. Of anywhere I've been, it's by far the best transit system. It takes a little while to get used to. Back then you had to use the Czech website which was (a) in Czech and (b) not that good. Nowadays though as long as you have a smartphone you just use Google Maps. Seoul was much more accessible then. Google Maps for transit though really is amazing. You can be totally unfamiliar with the system and it doesn't matter one bit. Back then without it I did often take cabs, especially at night, in areas I was less familiar with as figuring out how to get from A to B was pretty difficult. Now you just go on Google Maps and it tells you what routes to take when. It's really a complete game changer and solves the one issues with Prague's public transport in that it was difficult to figure out HOW to use it. Even during the day, I often took more indirect routes as it was easier to get to the metro and then figure out what stop to get off on with a tram line that ran directly there than go in more of a straight line using two or three tram lines.
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Old 02-05-2016, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,669 posts, read 24,806,479 times
Reputation: 18894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
A polemic about nothing said here.


Nobody here has said "two to five years."


And if you yourself admit "there will be progress," you can't call it a "fantasy."
I'll say it. We'll have fully autonomous vehicles in 2-5 years. Does that mean they'll be allowed to operate? Probably no. Actually, they're almost here now. Eg, as long as it's on private roads the Tesla is capable of operating in a pretty broad scope fully autonomously. Not completely yet, not because of lack of technology but because it wasn't built with the appropriate hardware to really be capable of doing it. Legally it can't do it hence the private roads. You also won't be hailing autonomous Uber cars in 2-5 years. I'd expect that more along the lines of 10 or 20 years. Legally it's more complex than technically. We already are 99% of the way there from a technical perspective. It's just getting it to be commercially ready and dealing with the legal aspects at this point. Your first cars capable of operating autonomously will be here in 2-5 years, but they'll require an operator present with hands on the wheel. They may not have all the redundancy necessary due to cost and won't be enabled for full autonomous use, but none the less the human operator will be more of the backup system in case of failure than the primary operator (if so desired) within that time.

Anyway, full automated subways isn't something that challenging from a technical perspective. Lots of systems operate fully autonomously with no operator. You don't see it here so much because of unions. Eg, BART still has conductors on board even though all they do is open and close doors. It's not that they couldn't have a computer open and close the doors. That's not particularly difficult. It's just the union would never allow it.
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Old 02-05-2016, 04:15 PM
 
28,574 posts, read 18,589,953 times
Reputation: 30812
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post

I'm 57. I'm hopeful that my car when I'm old and on the verge of losing my drivers license is self-driving. It will likely buy me several years in my own house where I'd have to move to some lousy assisted living place otherwise.
I'm betting that in 10-15 years, the systems will be reliable, but desire will still be low. At that point, State Farm, Geico, and All State will say, "All you Boomers who want to keep your insurance and licenses: Get automated vehicles."
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Old 02-05-2016, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,941 posts, read 7,297,355 times
Reputation: 16078
Quote:
Originally Posted by David2300 View Post
... Is it a financial thing, or just US officials being against public transit?

...

I'm surprised US officials aren't taking this into account.

Your thinking is flawed. It's not U.S. officials. It's U.S. voters.


For example, "officials" have been touting the return of commuter rail service to the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania, where I live, but voters routinely lampoon the idea even as those "officials" spend untold monies on study after study.
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Old 02-05-2016, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,941 posts, read 7,297,355 times
Reputation: 16078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Anyway, full automated subways isn't something that challenging from a technical perspective. Lots of systems operate fully autonomously with no operator. You don't see it here so much because of unions. Eg, BART still has conductors on board even though all they do is open and close doors. It's not that they couldn't have a computer open and close the doors. That's not particularly difficult. It's just the union would never allow it.
Check out Singapore. Many years ago somebody spit out a was of chewing gum that prevented a subway door from closing, preventing the train from leaving the station and preventing other trains from moving. The result was chaos as the entire system came to a halt. When the investigation concluded that the cause was errant chewing gum, the officials simply outlawed chewing gum.


That's the kind of thing you can only do in an authoritarian/totalitarian country or in Trump Tower. You could not do that in the U.S.
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Old 02-05-2016, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,669 posts, read 24,806,479 times
Reputation: 18894
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Check out Singapore. Many years ago somebody spit out a was of chewing gum that prevented a subway door from closing, preventing the train from leaving the station and preventing other trains from moving. The result was chaos as the entire system came to a halt. When the investigation concluded that the cause was errant chewing gum, the officials simply outlawed chewing gum.


That's the kind of thing you can only do in an authoritarian/totalitarian country or in Trump Tower. You could not do that in the U.S.
No, they intentionally were vandalizing the door sensors with chewing gum. The whole chewing gum thing predates MTR's existence in Singapore and was just the last straw that lead to the ban. Singapore is Singapore. It's not the place you go to litter, chew gum, jaywalk, or watch porno.

Automated systems run in Spain, France, Germany, S. Korea, Canada, US, and so on.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Savannah
2,099 posts, read 2,261,027 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGompers View Post
The short answer is the American public views public transportation as being for poor people, especially buses. Although I do think train/subway transport is viewed slightly higher in the public's view than buses
poor black people, specifically. Oh sorry, I mean to say "those" people. Also, public transportation is "dangerous" and has criminals on it. Ugh. That last part I was even told even by my black friends when I moved south they were genuinely worried for me to use a bus. !!?? And yes, bus is like totes ghetto compared with trains/subway. Why that is..not sure. But I noticed this too. I love public transportation, so nice to not have to worry about driving. Public transportation shapes cities. More transport, more interface between everyone, so people get comfortable living with each other. Public transportation is a good education basically.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:53 PM
 
3,695 posts, read 4,965,277 times
Reputation: 2069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
No, they intentionally were vandalizing the door sensors with chewing gum. The whole chewing gum thing predates MTR's existence in Singapore and was just the last straw that lead to the ban. Singapore is Singapore. It's not the place you go to litter, chew gum, jaywalk, or watch porno.

Automated systems run in Spain, France, Germany, S. Korea, Canada, US, and so on.
The problem with automation is that those systems are not as good at handling the unexpected or security problems.
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Old 02-05-2016, 11:38 PM
 
18,073 posts, read 18,694,948 times
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Density? Size? Come on now, that does not matter, even some poky doke towns in N. Sweden have excellent public trans (being a bus that comes 4 times a day to take you to another town), Russia, much larger than the US, has a great public trans system, and even low density Kazakhstan has a great public trans system.

People love cars, we see this all over the world has wealth has come to many people who never had it and guess what, they ditched their mass trans for cars. London, often touted as the prime example of a mass trans system, still has a huge amount of people who drive.

With a few exceptions, the bus system in the US is inefficient, and seems designed to assist the poor rather than assist in making it a viable commuting option. Every little grubby city politician will fight for service, despite the inefficiency that comes from it. Routes are set up by feel good types who look at success as intent rather than outcome.

Rail (national), forget it. To make a great rail system would never happen, way too many politicians will fight tooth and nail to have it run through their districts, despite how inefficient and useless it is to do so, thus people not taking it.

General set up of places; the same types that brought you 4 gas stations at an intersection also brought you every other lovely design that makes a car maybe not needed, but pretty damn handy to have.

Oh yea, the people, seriously, the US has a large number of just plain gruby, dirty people and criminals. If it is not fights and assaults, then it is the men trying to smooth talk BS to every female that hops on board, or the smelly homeless guy sleeping; who the hell wants to be part of that?

Oh yes, I lived in a few European countries for a few years and use to reside in the DC area, using the heck out of the mass trans system, so I am no stranger to the entire thing, but as I alluded to; seems too many people are hell bent on intent and getting people to change to accommodate public trans, rather than have the transportation accommodate them, then these people just gasp "why no one wants to use mass transit?"
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Old 02-05-2016, 11:54 PM
 
Location: 89434
6,658 posts, read 4,719,318 times
Reputation: 4833
Most American cities are built for cars. Especially when mass transit in most cities doesn't cover much.
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