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View Poll Results: Why don't urban planner talk about sustainability more?
Too busy balancing all the other concerns 3 18.75%
Need more specific ideas than just "sustainability" 7 43.75%
Sustainability projects need bigger teams of experts - engineers, economist, etc 2 12.50%
Sustainability projects cost too much 2 12.50%
Other - please use the comments section 4 25.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-21-2016, 08:13 PM
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Location: Western Massachusetts
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It's an important of sustainability
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Old 05-21-2016, 08:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
If you don't preserve the green space when you can, it's gone forever.
Not true; there's a lot of reclaimed green space in Detroit. Life finds a way
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Old 05-21-2016, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Not true; there's a lot of reclaimed green space in Detroit. Life finds a way
Not every city is losing population like Detroit. In fact, most aren't. Sometimes the best properties get developed.
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Old 05-21-2016, 10:35 PM
 
8,858 posts, read 6,856,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
It's still not sustainability! That's a buzzword that does not apply.
Well the architecture, construction, development, and property management professions are wrong then, because that's the term we use.
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Old 05-22-2016, 09:00 AM
 
3,438 posts, read 4,452,517 times
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Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
Well the architecture, construction, development, and property management professions are wrong then, because that's the term we use.
Because it is mislabeling for marketing purposes.

Pretty much everything you describe is directed at consumption to build and providing space to house people and things that consume or demand. The practitioners in the fields you described are interested in sustaining the flow of cash into their pockets but that isn't really an objective of the people the "sustainability" pitch is being made to. Nowhere have you addressed production/supply of what you imply is being "sustained".
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Old 05-22-2016, 01:18 PM
 
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I don't know your angle, but let me simplify things.

These industries realize that building and managing buildings uses a huge amount of resources, which comprise a large percentage of the US power usage, petroleum usage, air pollution, and so on. There's a very large move among these industries to address that.

Much of that is driven by tenants, clients, and local codes. Some are driven by ethics. Some are driven by reduced power bills. Some are following a trend.

You'd be surprised by how much idealism there is in these industries. Architecture is probably foremost in that. People enter architecture with the same dreamy eyes that we heard about teachers and doctors. There's a lot of "improve the world" thinking. Even some developers are like that (maybe not in your area, but it's common in mine).
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Old 05-22-2016, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,729,686 times
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A while back, I posted a definition of sustainability.

I gave the short definition. Here's the long one:

"1. For renewable resources, the rate of harvest should not exceed the rate of regeneration (sustainable yield);

2. [For pollution] The rates of waste generation from projects should not exceed the assimilative capacity of the environment (sustainable waste disposal); and

3. For nonrenewable resources the depletion of the nonrenewable resources should require comparable development of renewable substitutes for that resource."
Definition of Environmental Sustainability

None of this is going on in most construction.
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Old 05-22-2016, 03:53 PM
 
3,438 posts, read 4,452,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
I don't know your angle, but let me simplify things.

These industries realize that building and managing buildings uses a huge amount of resources, which comprise a large percentage of the US power usage, petroleum usage, air pollution, and so on. There's a very large move among these industries to address that.

Much of that is driven by tenants, clients, and local codes. Some are driven by ethics. Some are driven by reduced power bills. Some are following a trend.

You'd be surprised by how much idealism there is in these industries. Architecture is probably foremost in that. People enter architecture with the same dreamy eyes that we heard about teachers and doctors. There's a lot of "improve the world" thinking. Even some developers are like that (maybe not in your area, but it's common in mine).
Nothing you have said supports anything more than a marketing program.

Much of the "improve the world thinking" is no different than "new and improved" on the packaging that food products are placed in.

See Katarina's post above. All you are doing is promoting more consumption under the false pretext of "sustainability". It's just a pitch word. Professionals should start being called out when they use the word and can't show anything other than cash flow into their bank accounts being sustained.

"Sustainability" is thrown around as if proponents are morally superior to everyone else. It's more of a religion and certainly not a reality. It seems to mostly be used to push an agenda of higher density housing, less private space, and more restrictions on people - for no good reason. You claim "sustainability" as a reason and yet no evidence of accomplishing the pretextual objective with impositions made.
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Old 05-22-2016, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,729,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ic_delight View Post
nothing you have said supports anything more than a marketing program.

Much of the "improve the world thinking" is no different than "new and improved" on the packaging that food products are placed in.

See katarina's post above. All you are doing is promoting more consumption under the false pretext of "sustainability". It's just a pitch word. Professionals should start being called out when they use the word and can't show anything other than cash flow into their bank accounts being sustained.

"sustainability" is thrown around as if proponents are morally superior to everyone else. It's more of a religion and certainly not a reality. It seems to mostly be used to push an agenda of higher density housing, less private space, and more restrictions on people - for no good reason. You claim "sustainability" as a reason and yet no evidence of accomplishing the pretextual objective with impositions made.
ita.
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Old 05-22-2016, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,509 posts, read 9,490,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
A while back, I posted a definition of sustainability.

I gave the short definition. Here's the long one:

"1. For renewable resources, the rate of harvest should not exceed the rate of regeneration (sustainable yield);

2. [For pollution] The rates of waste generation from projects should not exceed the assimilative capacity of the environment (sustainable waste disposal); and

3. For nonrenewable resources the depletion of the nonrenewable resources should require comparable development of renewable substitutes for that resource."
Definition of Environmental Sustainability

None of this is going on in most construction.
I can't really say how sustainability (or "being green," if you prefer) relates to urban planning. But, I can assure you that #1--at least--is happening, even in construction that is not making the claim to be sustainable. (or "green," if you prefer) For example, wood is a renewable resource, and is used in just about any kind of construction. The development of plywood, oriented strand board, engineered lumber, etc. allow for more efficient use of the wood that's harvested.

I can understand your point that you think sustainability is the wrong word, because "sustainable" projects still use more resources than if the project hadn't happened at all. But, to say that sustainability (or "being green," if you prefer) has no substance, and is just a marketing ploy, is just nonsense! Again, maybe it's more correct to use "green" instead of "sustainable." But, the design, construction, and operation of new "green" buildings are approached in a way to reduce the resources that building uses, and pollution that building generates.
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