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I prefer walking, but I think the objections are more to this idea that cities are inherently warm and inviting and and suburbs are inherently cold and impersonal. My experience is the opposite--there are lots more people in the city, but you are much less likely to have a spontanoeus conversation with one of them. It's just not how cities work (at least around here). Driving, walking, biking, doesn't matter. People socialize once they've gotten where they're going. The notion that using a car for transportation isolates people isn't consistent with its most to experience.
Now cities do have more people and there is a lot more going on. Smaller distances makes social gathering easier. Less space makes going out more appealing. Plenty of urban ****-ins and suburban social butterflies, though.
My experience is similar to yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81
It's utterly bizarre that you proclaimed this sentence without a trace of irony.
I liked my old walkable neighborhood, where people walked and I had a porch I could sit on the porch and watch the people go by on the street. Though city vs suburb isn't a particularly useful distinction out here where there aren't any large cities; maybe just old walkable town and newer development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrandom
I prefer walking, but I think the objections are more to this idea that cities are inherently warm and inviting and and suburbs are inherently cold and impersonal. My experience is the opposite--there are lots more people in the city, but you are much less likely to have a spontanoeus conversation with one of them. It's just not how cities work (at least around here). Driving, walking, biking, doesn't matter. People socialize once they've gotten where they're going. The notion that using a car for transportation isolates people isn't consistent with its most to experience.
You're not striking a random conversation with people on the street, but it is more isolating when there isn't anyone on the street and no one around. Easier to get a sense of the place. I'm not that social, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81
It's utterly bizarre that you proclaimed this sentence without a trace of irony.
Or, in simpler terms: Back at ya.
maybe? but telling someone you wouldn't feel that way if only you lived or experienced X is almost always making a lot of assumptions assuming the person had the same experience or react the same way.
Last edited by nei; 05-26-2017 at 08:19 AM..
Reason: fixed typos
I liked my old walkable neighborhood, where people walked and I had a porch I could sit on the porch and watch the people go by on the street. Though city vs suburb isn't a particularly useful distinction out here where there aren't any large cities; maybe just old walkable town and newer development.
You're no striking a random conversation with people on the street, it is more isolating when there isn't anyone on the street and no one around. Easier to get a sense of the place. I'm not that social, either.
maybe? but telling someone you wouldn't feel that way if only you lived or experienced X is almost always making a lot of assumptions assuming the person had the same experience or react the same way.
In point of fact, I grew up in one of these "walkable" towns, and there was very little striking of random conversations with people in the street. If you saw someone you knew, you said hello, as I said earlier, maybe chatted a bit if you and they had time. But many was the time I/we went "dahntahn" (a Pittsburghese) and saw no one we knew. Ditto even here in downtown Louisville.
Plenty of the urbanists on here say the same thing. Maybe it's just human nature.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 05-26-2017 at 08:26 AM..
I liked my old walkable neighborhood, where people walked and I had a porch I could sit on the porch and watch the people go by on the street. Though city vs suburb isn't a particularly useful distinction out here where there aren't any large cities; maybe just old walkable town and newer development.
And not all walkable environments automatically have front porches, not all suburbs are cul-de-sac farms, not all city neighborhoods are densely populated, etc. etc. etc. Very few of the usual x vs. y arguments used on this forum are useful distinctions, yet that doesn't stop anyone from spouting on about them.
Quote:
You're no striking a random conversation with people on the street, it is more isolating when there isn't anyone on the street and no one around. Easier to get a sense of the place. I'm not that social, either.
Hahahaha, and that reminds me of visiting Cleveland a few months after I'd moved from an inner-ring Cleveland suburb to small-town southern Ohio. I was walking down East Ninth Street smiling and saying hello to everyone I passed - and after about 10 minutes of getting weird looks, remembered where I was and started acting like a Clevelander again. LOL
I can probably count on one hand the times in my 58 years I've struck up a random conversation with people on the street, no matter the environment. Aside from a casual "good morning", not usually. Maybe at the bus stop, especially if the weather sucks or the bus is late , but that's different from talking with people you don't know while you walking down the street. Even in neighborhoods where I've lived for many years, and walk every day, I might chat with the "regulars" for a minute or two if I'm not in that much of a rush, but that's not random when you're seeing them every single morning.
Just about anyone is more likely to start up conversations with random strangers at the grocery store, etc. - which exist in suburban and urban environments alike.
Nevermind the conversations I start with random strangers while I'm driving ... Bwah hahahaha!
I've lived in NYC. I love it. My experience was the complete opposite of yours. I definitely interacted with people more in NYC than I did in previous places I've lived where driving was the focus. Did you ever think that maybe these things are totally subjective and that for one person what might be a maddening, stressful experience for another could be a more positive experience?
Some people just don't like cars and prefer walking. It's a preference. It's utterly bizarre that some people just can't seem to accept that others have different preferences. I like how some people on this forum are acting as if not liking cars is a "claim," as if a personal preference can somehow be untrue. It's as absurd as telling someone that their favorite color isn't actually what they say it is. "Oh you might claim you like the color red, but you really don't!" Laughable.
I never said I did not like living in NYC nor that I did not like walking. I was merely trying to indicate that the romantic notion of "skipping down the street waving Hi! to all you meet" is just not true in NYC. Most people in NYC are walking to get somewhere - usually in the quickest way. That means dodging people, cars, trucks, bikes, delivery people, all while paying attention to the stop lights on every corner.
Also, I made no judgment about people liking or disliking cars or preferring to walk. You somehow misread my post to come to that conclusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrandom
I prefer walking, but I think the objections are more to this idea that cities are inherently warm and inviting and and suburbs are inherently cold and impersonal. My experience is the opposite--there are lots more people in the city, but you are much less likely to have a spontanoeus conversation with one of them. It's just not how cities work (at least around here). Driving, walking, biking, doesn't matter. People socialize once they've gotten where they're going. The notion that using a car for transportation isolates people isn't consistent with its most to experience.
Now cities do have more people and there is a lot more going on. Smaller distances makes social gathering easier. Less space makes going out more appealing. Plenty of urban ****-ins and suburban social butterflies, though.
Well said. This matches my experiences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81
It's utterly bizarre that you proclaimed this sentence without a trace of irony.
Oh, please! Define "suburban design". No, don't, I think nei would have a stroke! But really, the burbs were laid out for convenience.
Just who the heck do you "interact" with on the streets while walking? IME, most people are just minding their own business. If you see someone you know, you might say "hi". If you're waiting in line, you might say, "strange weather for late May, with 8" of snow, eh?" or the like. (That was last week, BTW) But you do the latter in the burbs too.
Have you ever noticed that suburban design from the 50s onward has included winding streets with few connections? The reason for that is to discourage walking. Houses typically don't have front porches and are fronted by a garage, to discourage porch sitting. Shops are intentionally driving distance, exacerbated by the winding streets, to prevent pedestrianism.
If you think those weren't conscious design choices, you probably just need to do some more research into the history of housing development in America
Last edited by earthisle; 05-26-2017 at 09:32 AM..
I never said I did not like living in NYC nor that I did not like walking. I was merely trying to indicate that the romantic notion of "skipping down the street waving Hi! to all you meet" is just not true in NYC. Most people in NYC are walking to get somewhere - usually in the quickest way. That means dodging people, cars, trucks, bikes, delivery people, all while paying attention to the stop lights on every corner.
Also, I made no judgment about people liking or disliking cars or preferring to walk. You somehow misread my post to come to that conclusion.
Well said. This matches my experiences.
Exactly
I didn't misread anything. Let's recap: someone said that living in walkable urban areas creates more social interaction. You told this person that they have never lived in NYC, as if living in NYC would somehow refute their argument. I'm saying you're wrong. I've lived in NYC, and I completely agree with what that poster said. Yes of course most of the time people in NYC are walking to get somewhere - but not always, and even then, I see my neighbors much more on my commute walking than I did when I just walked to my car in my garage. Again it's all subjective - other people with different schedules or habits than me might experience less social interaction. Someone stressed out by big urban environments would too. But for me, personally, and others like the person you responded to, living in somewhere like NYC does increase my social interaction.
The point about people liking or disliking cars was not directed at you.
Last edited by stateofnature; 05-26-2017 at 09:32 AM..
It's utterly bizarre that you proclaimed this sentence without a trace of irony.
Or, in simpler terms: Back at ya.
So you think I'm refusing to accept the preferences of others? You must not be reading carefully enough. Never once did I say there's something wrong about not wanting to live in a city or not wanting to walk places. Quite the opposite.
I prefer walking, but I think the objections are more to this idea that cities are inherently warm and inviting and and suburbs are inherently cold and impersonal. My experience is the opposite--there are lots more people in the city, but you are much less likely to have a spontanoeus conversation with one of them. It's just not how cities work (at least around here). Driving, walking, biking, doesn't matter. People socialize once they've gotten where they're going. The notion that using a car for transportation isolates people isn't consistent with its most to experience.
Now cities do have more people and there is a lot more going on. Smaller distances makes social gathering easier. Less space makes going out more appealing. Plenty of urban ****-ins and suburban social butterflies, though.
I would agree with you that that neither city nor suburb are "inherently" anything when it comes to social interaction. Results vary person to person. That's not a simple, clean answer, which I guess it why some people can't accept it. They want everything to be one way or the other.
Have you ever noticed that suburban design from the 50s onward has included winding streets with few connections? The reason for that is to discourage walking
Cite your source. I thought it was to limit drive through traffic to make it safer for kids playing and tougher for break-ins.
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, but that's different from talking with people you don't know while you walking down the street. Even in neighborhoods where I've lived for many years, and walk every day, I might chat with the "regulars" for a minute or two if I'm not in that much of a rush, but that's not random when you're seeing them every single morning. 
Bwah hahahaha!
