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While this is more accurate for the older, classic cities and in fact some in the sunbelt have them adjacent to or even in their downtowns, the distance from the central city until you hit these post-WWII auto-oriented developments can be a real measure of how big a city really is before it becomes suburban, and even among that, a difference between "inner suburbia" and "outer suburbia" with regards to the "density" of the sprawl. So, for the following five categories, please post the approximate distance you need to travel from your city's CBD until you hit these undeniably suburban-style developments:
Residential streets without a sidewalk on at least one side:
Post WWII Ranch/split-level/tract housing built for single families:
McMansion/Single Family 1980s-present home:
Strip mall set well back from the street with free parking on a surface parking lot:
Enclosed shopping mall with a moat of free parking:
I feel like for NYC it is not that far if you go west, into Jersey. I'm not sure the exact distance from Manhattan, but even on the way to MetLife stadium in NJ on the NJT you pass through a lot of open space and nothingness. I think it has to do with the physical barrier that separates Manhattan and the rest of NYC from NJ.
If you go East from Manhattan (into BK and Queens) or North (into The Bronx), the city seemingly never ends. There are some parts of Eastern Queens that have suburban qualities but I'm not sure you find all five of those categories until you get to out to Nassau County going East. Going North, I think you'd probably have to go past Yonkers in Westchester. Going South, there are parts of Staten Island that fit your description, but Staten Island itself is really far away from Manhattan. Much farther than NJ.
So I think for NYC the closest would be somewhere in NJ, and under 10 miles
Boston keeps its density on the coast for a while, but to the southwest it gets suburban pretty quickly.
In the city, neighborhoods like Hyde Park, Roslindale and especially West Roxbury have suburban parts with single family homes, so they're like 10 miles from downtown. They each have post WW2 single family houses.
Dedham has a mall, free parking, right over the border so I guess about 15 miles.
McMansions? West Roxbury and Dedham have them. 10-15 miles from downtown. Brookline is close but the homes in Southern Brookline are straight up mansion.
Strip Mall free parking. South Bay Plaza (Home Depot, Target) in Dorchester fits that description probably 3 miles from downtown. Assembly Square in Somerville might be closer to downtown and I don't go over there much. It used to be a strip mall with free parking but there has been a bunch of construction recently. So I can't talk about that
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Our residential street in Sammamish, WA has no sidewalks on either side.
The mid century homes are about 10 miles away in eastern Bellevue.
Our neighborhood is all single family 80s-present, McMansions are 1-5 miles away on the lake.
We have two strip malls set back with surface parking, 1 and 5 miles away.
The nearest enclosed mall is about 10 miles away, also in east Bellevue.
While this is more accurate for the older, classic cities and in fact some in the sunbelt have them adjacent to or even in their downtowns, the distance from the central city until you hit these post-WWII auto-oriented developments can be a real measure of how big a city really is before it becomes suburban, and even among that, a difference between "inner suburbia" and "outer suburbia" with regards to the "density" of the sprawl. So, for the following five categories, please post the approximate distance you need to travel from your city's CBD until you hit these undeniably suburban-style developments:
Residential streets without a sidewalk on at least one side:
Post WWII Ranch/split-level/tract housing built for single families:
McMansion/Single Family 1980s-present home:
Strip mall set well back from the street with free parking on a surface parking lot:
Enclosed shopping mall with a moat of free parking:
Sacramento:
1) Maybe 6-7 miles? Tough to find but Arden-Arcade area has spots with no sidewalks. I'm unaware of anything closer.
2) Ranches, hmm 3 miles maybe.
3) 1980 and newer McMansions, losely defined they exist in North Natomas which is perhaps 5 miles. They're more executive than real McMansions though. Really need to go out to Folsom/Granite Bay/EDH for the real McMansions, which is perhaps 25 miles. Smattering in Fair Oaks, mostly not 1980s though. Just McMansions you only need to go about 2 miles. But those were built much before 1980. Some of it's tasteful, some of it's classic McMansion just much older (gaudy, mismash of architectural styles being classic McMansion)
4) Mile or two. Definitely not undeniably suburban however.
5) 4-5 miles.
Residential streets without a sidewalk on at least one side: 1.2 miles, although pretty much everything from 1.2 miles to the rural fringe will have sidewalks on both sides a good chunk of the time, it's only an occasional lack of sidewalks that starts at 1.2 miles
Post WWII Ranch/split-level/tract housing built for single families: 1.7 miles
McMansion/Single Family 1980s-present home: rare, about 3-4 miles; most of the city was built 1910-1970 and McMansions are rare, most new homes are start home style
Strip mall set well back from the street with free parking on a surface parking lot: 1.2 miles... that's basically most commercial development outside downtown and even downtown has a bit
Enclosed shopping mall with a moat of free parking: 2.4 miles (there's only one)
While this is more accurate for the older, classic cities and in fact some in the sunbelt have them adjacent to or even in their downtowns, the distance from the central city until you hit these post-WWII auto-oriented developments can be a real measure of how big a city really is before it becomes suburban, and even among that, a difference between "inner suburbia" and "outer suburbia" with regards to the "density" of the sprawl. So, for the following five categories, please post the approximate distance you need to travel from your city's CBD until you hit these undeniably suburban-style developments:
Cleveland
Residential streets without a sidewalk on at least one side:
approx. 7-9 miles these initially occur in topographical area which due to being in flood valley plain is almost rural in nature. Or places which remained 'township' for long time before being incorporated into a conventional municipality.
Post WWII Ranch/split-level/tract housing built for single families:
approx. 4 miles - there may be a few closer that are one off infill redevelopment.
McMansion/Single Family 1980s-present home:
approx. 2.5 miles - these were infill redevelopment of former abandoned destroyed late 19th century neighborhoods.
Strip mall set well back from the street with free parking on a surface parking lot:
approx. 2-2.5 miles small scale ones are infill redevelopment from 1950s-60s on aggregated parcels of former late 19th century street car lines or main arterials large scale one is on former steel works site in industrial valley.
Enclosed shopping mall with a moat of free parking::
Between 7.5 to 8.5 miles. Interestingly, all three former enclosed malls have been repurposed to either free standing archipelagos in a sea of parking or partially demolished (downsized square feet) and reconfigured with added residential component as the former high density (large household size) and diminished discretionary buying power has waned.
Topographical and geographic constraints with historic land usage will influence these distances more in some metros more than others.
I feel like for NYC it is not that far if you go west, into Jersey. I'm not sure the exact distance from Manhattan, but even on the way to MetLife stadium in NJ on the NJT you pass through a lot of open space and nothingness. I think it has to do with the physical barrier that separates Manhattan and the rest of NYC from NJ.
That's "nothingness" isn't really land, its part of a tidal wetland (the Meadowlands).
As the crow flies, the closest strip mall to Manhattan with free parking is probably the Edgewater Commons mall, just across the Hudson (~ 1 mile) from Columbia University. There are other similarly close. Closest by car is probably in Jersey City somewhere. Closest enclosed mall with free parking, Hudson Mall in Jersey City, about 7.5 miles by car from One World Trade Center. The housing can be found just across the river in towns like Cliffside Park and Edgewater. There might be some in Weehawken (just across the Lincoln Tunnel), but not a lot.
While this is more accurate for the older, classic cities and in fact some in the sunbelt have them adjacent to or even in their downtowns, the distance from the central city until you hit these post-WWII auto-oriented developments can be a real measure of how big a city really is before it becomes suburban, and even among that, a difference between "inner suburbia" and "outer suburbia" with regards to the "density" of the sprawl. So, for the following five categories, please post the approximate distance you need to travel from your city's CBD until you hit these undeniably suburban-style developments:
Residential streets without a sidewalk on at least one side:
Post WWII Ranch/split-level/tract housing built for single families:
McMansion/Single Family 1980s-present home:
Strip mall set well back from the street with free parking on a surface parking lot:
Enclosed shopping mall with a moat of free parking:
Well I live in a mid-sized city that was sort of farm/country when it started. So there are some interesting development patterns here in Oakland.
Residential streets without a sidewalk on at least one side - the is about 5-7 miles from the center city in the horse land of Oakland. That is up in the hills and up in the forest.
Post WWII Ranch/split-level/tract housing built for single families - this is about 6-7 miles from center city, in the flat lands and the eastern parts of the city. They have sidewalks, and California ranch housing is pretty dense in my part of CA
McMansion/Single Family 1980s-present home - We don't have a lot of this, only about 5 miles from downtown where the area was destroyed in the Hills Fire in 1991.
Strip mall set well back from the street with free parking on a surface parking lot - this starts about 1 mile from downtown, but they are randomly placed. There is this pattern in auto row and up on Telegraph in pockets. There are both older buildings from the 1920s-1940s that are mixed used with no setback from the sidewalk. And then across the street there will be a random strip mall. This is the case for the close in places to the central business district. But there are also areas nearby that retained the old school main street layout. For example, in the 3 miles between downtown and one of the main street areas, there is another main street and also 3 strip mall like developments between. It changes often, almost block by block.
Enclosed shopping mall with a moat of free parking - around 10 miles from CBD
Oakland is a weird place, you have everything from victorian commercial, art deco high rises and 1980s high rise and 1950s low rise all in the downtown area. And adjacent to downtown you have 1920s commercial and 1950s strip malls.
While this is more accurate for the older, classic cities and in fact some in the sunbelt have them adjacent to or even in their downtowns, the distance from the central city until you hit these post-WWII auto-oriented developments can be a real measure of how big a city really is before it becomes suburban, and even among that, a difference between "inner suburbia" and "outer suburbia" with regards to the "density" of the sprawl. So, for the following five categories, please post the approximate distance you need to travel from your city's CBD until you hit these undeniably suburban-style developments:
Denver, from the City-County Building
Residential streets without a sidewalk on at least one side: Miles and miles. Virtually all the suburbs have sidewalks, usually on both sides of the street.
Post WWII Ranch/split-level/tract housing built for single families: 5 miles east and west. The closer-in burbs have more bungalows.
McMansion/Single Family 1980s-present home: ? Not a lot of "McMansions". I'm not as familiar with the south and east sides.
Strip mall set well back from the street with free parking on a surface parking lot: In the city around the grocery stores. Closest to downtown seems to be Trader Joe's, ~ 1.5 miles
Enclosed shopping mall with a moat of free parking: In the city, Cherry Creek Mall, has parking garage, ~3 miles.
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