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Old 03-26-2019, 10:28 AM
 
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Here's an interesting proposition: is it actually possible to plan a transit-oriented development so well that its residents have to do minimal walking?

On the flip side, is it actually possible to plan a masterplanned suburb so well that its residents actually walk copiously?

Here's some ideas for the transit-oriented development:

1. Install elevators and escalators in all subway stations.
2. In the subway system, make all transfers cross-platform interchanges
3. Build malls on top of every subway station
4. Build massive high-rise condo complexes and office skyscrapers on top of those malls


3 and 4 would help tremendously. Just imagine that you're a resident of those condo complexes. Groceries, banks, restaurants, cinemas, stores, the subway station, etc. would all be a quick elevator ride away from your doorstep. Take the subway for 20 minutes, get off at the station, and your office is just a quick elevator ride from the subway platform.

Let me explain number 2: in this subway system, trains come every two minutes and are timed to such perfection that they have cross-platform interchanges. So if you want to transfer to a different line, all you do is get off at the interchange station, walk 50 feet across a platform, and within ten seconds your connecting train arrives.

Here's some ideas for the masterplanned suburb:

1. Each subdivision will be about one square mile
2. Pack each subdivision to the brim. Build lots of three-story apartment complexes, some townhomes, and make sure all the single family homes are on tiny lots with zero-lot lines and shared driveways. In this way, you should be able to pack almost 5,000 units on this square mile, AND still have plenty of space to spare for parks and a shopping mall.
3. Put the central park and the elementary school right next to each other, smack in the center of this one square mile. Everyone will be able to walk to the central park/school in ten minutes or less.
4. Put a dozen smaller parks all over this one square mile, such that each resident will be no more than a five minute's walk from the nearest park.
5. Make an extensive trail network that connects all these parks together to each other and to the central park.
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Old 03-26-2019, 02:14 PM
 
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It's hard to change people's habits. It also depends where you are referring to. Are we talking about in the US or elsewhere? If in the US, what states?

Highrises are not the solution - they are ruining Medallin Colombia right now.
Malls are dead
People movers are for lazy people

If you want to look at planned communities, look in Northern, VA like Ashburn. Each "subdivision" area has their own homes, schools, religious houses of worship parks and stores. The problem I have with this set up is big houses on teeny tiny pieces of land and everything is driven to. It all used to be farm land...should have stayed that way.

Is this an imaginary project?
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Old 03-26-2019, 05:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceog View Post
It's hard to change people's habits. It also depends where you are referring to. Are we talking about in the US or elsewhere? If in the US, what states?

Highrises are not the solution - they are ruining Medallin Colombia right now.
Malls are dead
People movers are for lazy people

If you want to look at planned communities, look in Northern, VA like Ashburn. Each "subdivision" area has their own homes, schools, religious houses of worship parks and stores. The problem I have with this set up is big houses on teeny tiny pieces of land and everything is driven to. It all used to be farm land...should have stayed that way.

Is this an imaginary project?
As for case studies, look to Hong Kong's subway system. I personally lived in an apartment complex of 60 storey buildings. Everyday, the subway, supermarket, banks, bakeries, etc. were simply a quick elevator ride away. Hong Kong's subway system meets my four ideas of transit-oriented development very, very well.

I have looked at NOVA extensively on Google Maps, want to visit it someday. But as for that ideal, relatively dense and walkable masterplanned suburb, I was thinking of my hometown of Irvine, California.

Try looking Irvine up on Google Maps. You'll quickly see that it is far more dense, with houses much more closely packed, than Ashburn. Irvine's newer communities fit my ideas of that walkable, compact masterplanned suburb very, very well. Especially this subdivision called Woodbury.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
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In urban areas subway stations tend to be every half mile or so. That's way too many malls for even for Hong Kong level density.
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Old 03-28-2019, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,416 posts, read 10,452,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
2. In the subway system, make all transfers cross-platform interchanges
In order for this to work, intersecting lines must operate on two parallel tracks, with a platform in-between. But this would result in operational inefficiencies. The maximum headways of the two lines would be twice what they otherwise could be, because they would be constrained by how many trains could stop at the same platform at the transfer station. For example, if the maximum possible headway at any given station is 2 minutes (i.e. a maximum throughput of 30 trains per hour), this means that each of the two lines serving this station could only operate with a maximum of 4-minute headways, since they'd be sharing the tracks and platforms of the transfer station.

Also, you'd need to have a platform twice as wide as any other, because you'd have the passenger load of two lines, going in two directions each, sharing that one single platform in-between the two tracks.

What's more, suppose that the two intersecting lines are at right angles to each other. If the transfer station were built with one line on top of the other, no problem. But if they are to share the same platform, one or both of them will have to curve outward and then back in to be able to match up with the other one.

It is certainly possible to construct a transfer station with one line on top of the other but still minimize walking distance to almost as little as a cross-platform transfer. Check out Metro Center or L'Enfant Plaza stations in Washington to see how it's done.
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Old 03-28-2019, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,416 posts, read 10,452,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
3. Build malls on top of every subway station
4. Build massive high-rise condo complexes and office skyscrapers on top of those malls
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
In urban areas subway stations tend to be every half mile or so. That's way too many malls for even for Hong Kong level density.
Along the lines of the OP's idea, one could locate individual major facilities at each station. Thus, a few stations would have major malls built on top of them; some stations would have office skyscrapers above them; and others would have high-rise condo buildings. That way, one could travel from home to work to shopping by using the easily accessible subway system instead of driving.

The other thing is, supermarkets (or at least convenience stores) should be built into the high-rise condo buildings. That way, the people who live there could get their groceries without needing to use a car or have to lug their groceries on the subway.
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Old 03-29-2019, 10:11 AM
 
4,147 posts, read 2,930,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
In order for this to work, intersecting lines must operate on two parallel tracks, with a platform in-between. But this would result in operational inefficiencies. The maximum headways of the two lines would be twice what they otherwise could be, because they would be constrained by how many trains could stop at the same platform at the transfer station. For example, if the maximum possible headway at any given station is 2 minutes (i.e. a maximum throughput of 30 trains per hour), this means that each of the two lines serving this station could only operate with a maximum of 4-minute headways, since they'd be sharing the tracks and platforms of the transfer station.

Also, you'd need to have a platform twice as wide as any other, because you'd have the passenger load of two lines, going in two directions each, sharing that one single platform in-between the two tracks.

What's more, suppose that the two intersecting lines are at right angles to each other. If the transfer station were built with one line on top of the other, no problem. But if they are to share the same platform, one or both of them will have to curve outward and then back in to be able to match up with the other one.

It is certainly possible to construct a transfer station with one line on top of the other but still minimize walking distance to almost as little as a cross-platform transfer. Check out Metro Center or L'Enfant Plaza stations in Washington to see how it's done.
Nope. In Hong Kong they have managed to have cross platform transfers and still keep the headways at one train every two minutes!
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Old 03-29-2019, 10:13 AM
 
4,147 posts, read 2,930,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Along the lines of the OP's idea, one could locate individual major facilities at each station. Thus, a few stations would have major malls built on top of them; some stations would have office skyscrapers above them; and others would have high-rise condo buildings. That way, one could travel from home to work to shopping by using the easily accessible subway system instead of driving.

The other thing is, supermarkets (or at least convenience stores) should be built into the high-rise condo buildings. That way, the people who live there could get their groceries without needing to use a car or have to lug their groceries on the subway.
That's precisely how it was like in the apartment complex I stayed in in Hong Kong. The supermarket and the subway station were both only a quick elevator ride down from my apartment.
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Old 03-29-2019, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
Nope. In Hong Kong they have managed to have cross platform transfers and still keep the headways at one train every two minutes!

I stand corrected. I wasn't thinking about having two side-by-side island platforms with a total of 4 tracks. In the case where there is only a single island platform with 2 tracks, my point stands.
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:58 PM
 
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https://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=15807
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