Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Forget fire, what about police and social workers and medical? The farther you are away from a real city the less likely any of these services will be available to you.
Are you forcibly relocating homeless to this city?
All this off the proceeds from one apartment building.
Not provided.
Nope, it's all voluntary. (why are you such a troll?)
Did you miss the initial investment part? Oh yes of course you did because you were too busy telling me how it wouldn't work I remember now.
Again dude, please just go away, you've made your opinion known that you don't think it'll work.
That's what I was thinking.
But IF you build it the homeless WILL come, likely out of curiosity. But retirees? I think not.
The lost and homeless will try it, then trash it, then leave it.
That is the short story.
But I wish you luck because I'd love to see how it plays out... especially the 'unintended consequences' part.
If you get even half way there it could make good grist for a Netflix series!
I hope your rather lackadaisical approach to fire safety doesn't extend to your apartment complex.
It does not as that building will most likely not be made of concrete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man
How is having a fire sprinkler system in a parking garage a "huge waste of money"? If one car catches fire, and that fire is not contained, it will spread to the next car, and then the next one, and so on. You could have hundreds of cars go up in flames, at a staggering cost. And if a fire gets hot enough (which is surely would with hundreds of cars ablaze), it will melt the steel that is inside the concrete, causing it to fail.
Did you say it will spread to the next car? As in steel is going to catch fire because there is a fire nearby? Don't get me wrong the gas tank is a concern, BUT given that the response time is under 15 minutes which isn't enough time. There are numerous videos on the internet of cars burning and NOT catch the cars next to on fire. Cars aren't flammable so for hundreds of cars to be on fire there would need to be a VERY strong source of fire to make that happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man
Guyana is in South America. Apparently, you are not familiar with the history of the People's Temple.
I'm familiar with Jonestown...
Seriously does anyone have any useful information to add to this discussion? I get it, you all think it's a horrible idea where I'm going to steal human beings, create a cult, or who knows. I get you're so privileged YOU wouldn't live there, guess what this isn't for YOU. If you don't want to help me with the information and numbers, just stop trolling me.
Your cap rate is 10 percent of what? If you mentioned the basis, I missed it. But your apartment complex must be huge, or hugely expensive, for 10 percent of its revenues to be sufficient to fund not only a city, but the sustenance of the people who live there.
Burning Man is an annual festival of, what, maybe one or two weeks in duration. The attendees don't live there, they camp there. Slab City sounds like a more apt parallel to what you're trying to do, so I would recommend studying it to see what works and what doesn't. Another "society" that might give you insight into what you're trying to accomplish would be the huge RV parks that sprout up in Yuma, Arizona every winter.
The initial investment was 4 million. 2 million was for the apartment complex which worked out to 200k a year, and the other 2 million was for about 1k units to get the city started.
I don't think it is but if Slab city worked (which it seems that it has) then my place will.
Personally, I wouldn't want to live there even if it were free, for the reasons that you stated. But then again, if I were a homeless person living in a tent and subsisting on scraps, this may seem like a real step up. I applaud the OP for wanting to do something to help the homeless. I just don't think that giving them a roof over their heads but not doing anything to address the root causes of their afflictions will ultimately help. A model like Habitat for Humanity, where the beneficiaries actively participate in the construction or renovation of their homes, would be a better way to not only house the homeless, but help turn them into productive members of society.
I'm not interested in turning them into "productive members of society". I'm looking for them to be able to live in peace without having to worry about freezing or starving. Habitat for Humanity has been operating for years now, and the homeless population continues to increase.
I think it's great that you want to help others, but I have some questions.
Will you let just anybody live there? People down on their luck, runaway kids, drug addicts, people off their meds? How will you decide and enforce this? How will disputes between residents be resolved?
Yes. I don't "enforce" anything, no questions asked. You want shelter/food welcome aboard. (assuming we have room) First come first served on housing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steiconi
Will there be jobs nearby, so somebody can change their circumstances, or is this terminal parking?
They have internet so... yes. There would also be transit to the city in the morning and the evenings for anyone who had a job, and places to park outside of the city for those who wanted to commute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steiconi
Have you talked to homeless people and found out that what they want?
Yes. I don't agree with everything they want or feel like they deserve sometimes, and I've found others who I feel like lower standards than they should.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steiconi
Somebody set up a homeless camp in a rural area near where I used to live. It was miles from town, and there was no public transportation. Residents complained that they had to hitchhike to town for jobs, entertainment, food, or to see friends. How will you deal with that?
I won't. They get shelter, food, internet, and common areas like fire pits, auditoriums for music, and a cafeteria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steiconi
Mail and parcel delivery could be accepted by a town office, like in an apartment building.
Yes. The city would have central mail/parcel addresses like some rural places have with an old-time post office with boxes and whatnot. I'm going to assume it had a volunteer working there, but if that doesn't work out I can definitely do something like PO boxes in a post office.
What? You have ZERO idea what a fire department does! You have no idea how many fires are in concrete buildings either. While the walls may not burn, the contents can and will. Thus the fire will spread to other rooms. The concrete can also be damaged and weakened by burning.
Zero idea... seriously? Most fire departments deal with wood construct houses that catch fire. The concrete buildings you're talking about are office buildings full of paper and other flammable stacked on top of each other where the fire below ignites the fire above. You have no idea how concrete does NOT burn. If you poke enough holes in it and you put enough flammable stuff in it, that will kill people, but the building is fine.
You'll notice in the image how the fire forms a V from the point of origin as the fire below ignites the flammable above. You'll also notice all big windows, and how the interior (which isn't concrete is gone) but the exterior is just fine. That is why the fire "spreads", concrete firebreaks are a thing in construction... because they don't burn. Go figure out how reality works before you tell other people they have zero idea how fires work mkay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts
Here's a hint about fire departments.....they don't just put out fires. They offer medical services. They help out in vehicle accidents. They evacuate buildings. There's soooo much more that they do.
Here's a spoiler. I don't have vehicles. I don't offer medical services. I don't off fire services. I know there is soooo much more I could do, but I'm not doing it because it costs soooo much more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts
How does a disabled person crawl out of a window? How many stories will this building be? 2 exits? You'll need more than that for an apartment building in most communities. You really need to do a TON of research. And I don't mean on City Data.
I've seen disabled people do some pretty damn amazing things. That said I doubt they would every need to crawl out of the bedroom windows as... wait for it... concrete doesn't burn. So they aren't really in danger of burning to death unless they start a fire in their room. That said smoke inhalation is a concern, but they should be able to crawl out of the buildings. One story. At least 2 exits but I've rolled around the idea of 4. We'd have to discuss the actually plans rather than talk about how this is going to fail to get in the important details, but at this point I doubt that's going to happen. You all seem to REALLY enjoy telling me how it's going to fail... even though you didn't really listen to the idea in the first place so you make up a bunch of nightmares about what you think it's going to look like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts
Have you ever built anything? Start by building your own house and see how complex the process is. You think being a landlord is a breeze and you're going to rolling in cash making millions. Newsflash. Maybe really a reality check. That's not the case for 99% of landlords. Those who are profitable didn't start off making a profit on day 1. It takes YEARS and there are serious loses along the way. Maybe get a job in property management so you can see what it's really like. It's not like reality tv.
Let me repeat for like the 30th time I have decades of successful real estate venture under my belt. I'm pretty sure that I'm somewhere around 15 houses, and two apartment complexes at this point that were all profitable when just looking at the purchase price + repairs versus the selling price. (I've never lost money on a real estate purchase) I'll add to that to say I could build a house all by myself. Plumbing, electrical, you name it, I've done it all over the course of my life. I expect I'm MUCH more aware of how complex the process is than you are.
I never said, implied, or indicated that being a landlord is a "breeze" however property management companies exist which will manage not only your apartment complex... but the repairs and everything else for about 10% of the income. It's possible to still have a 10% cap rate OVER those management costs, and at that point yes being a "breeze" when someone else is doing all the work. I've never had that because I do it all myself, but the brochure does sound nice...
That's what I was thinking.
But IF you build it the homeless WILL come, likely out of curiosity. But retirees? I think not.
The lost and homeless will try it, then trash it, then leave it.
That is the short story.
Along with violence including I guarantee murder. No supervision, no services, no expectations of behavior, just free internet and firepits and drum circles. Far away from any real services too. All to serve a population that deserves the shelter but which lacks many skills to maintain the semblance of a household. Or are ravaged by mental illness, addiction, or both. And you're suggesting they move far enough away from a small-ish city (i.e., job center) and hang out by the fire. While sleeping in concrete cells with no furniture per an earlier post.
This is not the Slab City model, btw.
OP, you posted this here so comments are expected, even ones you don't like. You started this thread with "doomed" in the title.
The things you are overlooking in your doomed dream city: legislation and regulations.
You know, the legal mandatory stuff regulated by local/ federal governments, regulations, etc. y
You are not on another - your own- planet.
I never claimed to be, and part of the help and information I would like to garner is where I could build something like this in the state/county that would have enough flexibility to allow me to construct. Man wouldn't be nice if I could get information rather than responding to harbringers of doom? A guy's gotta dream right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me
You will have to have services in your city. Every time you organize something for the people- you must ensure their safety.
(Ask concert promoters- and we are talking about just a few hours of people getting together )
Those concerts happen in cities right? They have to follow the city's regulations and rule right? There might be a reason why I want to create my own city would I wouldn't have to deal with those regulation so that I could build more reasonable without the red tape overhead involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me
No roads for the fire trucks? Would you let your people die when they have a heart attack? Stroke? Bleeding to death?
Maybe. Depends on what the community provided. I've lived in rural housing where the nearest hospital was an hour away. I'm guessing, but you have not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me
Unless you going to use now “homed” volunteer rickshas to cart them off to the nearest road? By sending some drum signals with the help of another “homed” volunteer drummer to the above mentioned rickshas or are you going to provide their cell phones too- once a day?
They surely may sell/barter their free phones for drugs or sex or whatever?
Other services?( electrical repairs, etc)
I guess you missed the part where internet will be provided. There will also be transit in the mornings and evenings to the nearby major city. I advocate legalized drugs and prostitution so long as it's consetual. That's another topic though. As previously mentioned, repairs are covered by the apartment complex in the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me
Why would a local nearby jurisdiction provide first aid for your town? Are you going to pay them for 911? Police?
You know, the stuff that makes town livable and paid by the taxpayers. What if they don’t want your money- due to liability perhaps? There are no free lunches!
(you will be housing sometimes violent psychotic people, violent drug addicts, rapist perhaps?-how are you going to deal with them? )
Because they are required to by law. (sorta the downside to owning a hospital) I'm not a big fan of police but if they are needed state troopers or the like would likely have justiction until the town had it's own police force. I'm not looking for taxpayers to live there did you miss the part where I'm housing the homeless? I'm going to deal with them... legally just like everywhere else in this country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me
A large proportion of homeless are people with the addictions and mental health issues.
How do you address that? Are you going to let them ran loose when they would get into a crisis mode? Or you can bring volunteer counselors and crisis intervention workers?
I'm not. Yes. I'm not going to "bring" them, but if they want to come out more power to them. Seriously though there are anywhere from 60k to 200k in homeless in this country right now and the majority of them aren't getting any of that stuff. They starve and freeze every years, but sure man if I want to help at all I should be prepared to do the habitat for humanity approach and build ONE person a home with all the fix'ns rather than housing 10 people with the basics because I'm a horrible person for not providing all the amenities you think they deserve. It really kills me how this idea catches flack from both sides. One side is like don't give free stuff your a commie socialist!!!, and the other side is you're not giving ENOUGH!!! No wonder no we have so many homeless vets in this country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me
In addition, not impressed with your knowledge of the most advanced and inexpensive to run buildings systems, judging that you mentioned geothermal. Much better use when starting from scratch is to use PassivHaus Institut standards ( not the US Passive House, mind you- and you won’t need any heating)
Passive houses require big windows and specific facing that I don't want to deal with. I've looked at them but I prefer berms as while I'll agree they aren't comfy as a well designed passive house I can copy and paste them all day long without having to worry about south-facing, windows, location, time of the year, etc. I can just burn and turn using the economy of scale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me
Please notice, that I give you a break regarding a financial aspect...
Sorry to sound discouraging but your doomed city strikes me as a middle school assignment project.
Are you actually in the US?
I don't think you or anyone else IS sorry to sound discouraging. If you were you would provide some information rather than just being harbingers of doom. I'm tired of the insults that I'm naive, or a child, or whatever you're implying here. Your opinion isn't original and isn't helpful. Go troll someone else.
What difference does it make if I do? I want to build in the US so even if I didn't live here I'm still trying to help here. Not to mention if I live in another country why wouldn't I build there? It's not like the regulations and cost would make this whole project DRAMATICALLY easier AND cheaper.
Two locations. Apartment complex in a major city (not mine) with my city of homeless people 10 miles outside of town. If you consider that "surrounded" we'll have to agree to disagree on what that word means.
Nope... because I'm not building in a major city, there will be green space and areas for activities. <glances at the 50+ acres stated earlier> Not to mention there's no requirement to "pay" or "prove" you deserve to live there.
Where are you going to find 50 acres 10 miles from a major city? Especially land that isn’t incorporated. There just isn’t random land available that close to cities. Have you looked into any state find out what’s involved in actually incorporating and becoming a municipality?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think not.
