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Old 08-14-2008, 04:51 PM
 
Location: on an island
13,314 posts, read 29,163,397 times
Reputation: 12585
Quote:
Originally Posted by supernerdgirl View Post
Seriously! we thought it was coming from one of the restaurants, but with the way it faded in and out, I knew it couldn't be. So after investigating, I could see the speakers at the bottom of the street lamps. Unbelievable.
Sounds like Disneyland.
If you simply don't like NU, that's cool, I respect that.
But if you think piped music is an example of typical New Urbanist development, you are mistaken.
I've seen quite a bit of NU stuff. But where I've been is mostly living areas, not places which *concentrate* on consumerism. I seem to remember piped music at Epcot, which would fit, but I don't know for sure if I heard it there.
I guarantee you we don't have it where I live.
I make my own soundtrack.
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Old 08-14-2008, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Chicago
35,926 posts, read 54,687,285 times
Reputation: 24543
I don't think the point was that piped music was "typical" but rather it wasn't really surprising or out of place considering the completely fake vibe of many NU developments.
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:00 AM
 
Location: on an island
13,314 posts, read 29,163,397 times
Reputation: 12585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
I don't think the point was that piped music was "typical" but rather it wasn't really surprising or out of place considering the completely fake vibe of many NU developments.
A well-done NU development does not rely on sound effects.

Ann Arbor, I missed your post before.
I wish you guys would give me a little bit more credit. I get the feeling that you want to conveniently put *me* in some sort of clueless soccer mom slot.
I know all about Celebration. I'm not a Sim living in a Celebration.

No, when I am talking big city amenities, I am not talking about Whole Paycheck or some other chain store. Duh.
I am talking about what makes a city great: the Plaza Mayor, the Chicago Art Institute, the Hadyn Planetarium, Il Campo, the Embarcadero, Red Rocks Amphitheater or some place like that.
Neither of my kids (we're emptynesters) have any desire to live where my husband and I live now. They want urban authenticity, with all its daytime splendors and action-filled nightlife. I did too when I was their age.

I understand your rant, and appreciate your build-a-city-organically attitude.
You neither trust nor respect what you see as social engineering.

OTOH, I've seen another side of what can happen to a real existing city.
My former home in central Denver has seen the cancer of chain stores take over what used to be a charming mom-and-pop neighborhood. What I basically witnessed was an actual *loss* of character when rents became too high and yuppification took over. The chocolate shop my kids grew up with closed down, while Panera moved in. My favorite indie bookstore, one I once walked to, moved away. That is one aspect of Denver's ever-changing redevelopment collage which I could have done without.

I too appreciate good "bones" in a place. But I don't believe that it is nostalgic to look to the past for workable examples. I like having a garage in back, and a porch in front. I like having an alley. Above all, I enjoy living in a walkable neighborhood where I know the inhabitants.

I think how "real" a place is depends on its community. Obviously ambience comes from more than retro lamp-posts. It might come from the skater kids; it might come from the Friday night gatherings, maybe the community garden--or maybe the graffiti.
It requires participation--and some long-term perspective.
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:06 AM
 
Location: Chicago
35,926 posts, read 54,687,285 times
Reputation: 24543
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWillowPlate View Post
A well-done NU development does not rely on sound effects.
You missed the point again. I don't know how much more plainly I can explain it... so ya know what, I won't try.
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:47 AM
 
Location: on an island
13,314 posts, read 29,163,397 times
Reputation: 12585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
You missed the point again. I don't know how much more plainly I can explain it... so ya know what, I won't try.
Drover, I think I >got< the point. I acknowledged that yes of course some places like that exist.
My point, and maybe I did not explain it well enough, is that IMHO there is some well-done NU out there.
Y'all seem to be coming from the point of view that all NU has a manufactured vibe to it, and I was trying to impart the fact that sometimes it does work.
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Old 08-15-2008, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
379 posts, read 670,183 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWillowPlate View Post
A well-done NU development does not rely on sound effects.

Ann Arbor, I missed your post before.
I wish you guys would give me a little bit more credit. I get the feeling that you want to conveniently put *me* in some sort of clueless soccer mom slot.
I know all about Celebration. I'm not a Sim living in a Celebration.

No, when I am talking big city amenities, I am not talking about Whole Paycheck or some other chain store. Duh.
I am talking about what makes a city great: the Plaza Mayor, the Chicago Art Institute, the Hadyn Planetarium, Il Campo, the Embarcadero, Red Rocks Amphitheater or some place like that.
Neither of my kids (we're emptynesters) have any desire to live where my husband and I live now. They want urban authenticity, with all its daytime splendors and action-filled nightlife. I did too when I was their age.

I understand your rant, and appreciate your build-a-city-organically attitude.
You neither trust nor respect what you see as social engineering.

OTOH, I've seen another side of what can happen to a real existing city.
My former home in central Denver has seen the cancer of chain stores take over what used to be a charming mom-and-pop neighborhood. What I basically witnessed was an actual *loss* of character when rents became too high and yuppification took over. The chocolate shop my kids grew up with closed down, while Panera moved in. My favorite indie bookstore, one I once walked to, moved away. That is one aspect of Denver's ever-changing redevelopment collage which I could have done without.

I too appreciate good "bones" in a place. But I don't believe that it is nostalgic to look to the past for workable examples. I like having a garage in back, and a porch in front. I like having an alley. Above all, I enjoy living in a walkable neighborhood where I know the inhabitants.

I think how "real" a place is depends on its community. Obviously ambience comes from more than retro lamp-posts. It might come from the skater kids; it might come from the Friday night gatherings, maybe the community garden--or maybe the graffiti.
It requires participation--and some long-term perspective.
I didn't mean to be hard on NU- I respect your decision to live in a place where you feel is safe and interesting for your you and your fam. And your right, there is no guarantee that a real city can match a NU town for you. Good posting.
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:23 PM
 
74 posts, read 119,709 times
Reputation: 35
To go urban again is what ever US city needs. I think the principles of new urbanism should be taken to a whole new level...instead of just building new " mixed-use urban centers," away from the heart of the citym, focus should also be taken to restore run-down urban streets in downtown areas to their former glory, and building over ugly parking lots and re-building other run-down areas in the urbanist style, with flats, rowhomes, townhomes and condos, shops and restaurants, into a quaint-like community feel that cities were once defined as; a larger, more-compact downtown. Hire artisans to craft beautiful, quaint, visually appealing and unique buildings, instead of these modernist concrete-and-glass boxes that some seem to find enjoyable.

Tear down those new cookie-cutter neighborhoods and strip malls, make them useful farmland again...and halt the ugly process of razing trees and cutting into beautiful hills and landscape for a concrete wasteland to be built...focus on the city center...bring residents back into town...build up instead of out.

Instead of building urban town centers in new areas...apply the new-urban idea to existing areas of town.

I think new urbanism is such a good idea, I almost want to make it a law. I really hope this trend really launches off soon and forever replaces the suburban craze.
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:37 PM
Status: "Collector of 80s New Wave Music" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Madison, WI
15,079 posts, read 20,208,752 times
Reputation: 7563
College towns have examples of new urbanism.

Middleton, WI (Madison)
Lawrence, KS
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Old 08-31-2008, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Cold Frozen North
1,923 posts, read 3,077,355 times
Reputation: 1203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigaven View Post
To go urban again is what ever US city needs. I think the principles of new urbanism should be taken to a whole new level...instead of just building new " mixed-use urban centers," away from the heart of the citym, focus should also be taken to restore run-down urban streets in downtown areas to their former glory, and building over ugly parking lots and re-building other run-down areas in the urbanist style, with flats, rowhomes, townhomes and condos, shops and restaurants, into a quaint-like community feel that cities were once defined as; a larger, more-compact downtown. Hire artisans to craft beautiful, quaint, visually appealing and unique buildings, instead of these modernist concrete-and-glass boxes that some seem to find enjoyable.

Tear down those new cookie-cutter neighborhoods and strip malls, make them useful farmland again...and halt the ugly process of razing trees and cutting into beautiful hills and landscape for a concrete wasteland to be built...focus on the city center...bring residents back into town...build up instead of out.

Instead of building urban town centers in new areas...apply the new-urban idea to existing areas of town.

I think new urbanism is such a good idea, I almost want to make it a law. I really hope this trend really launches off soon and forever replaces the suburban craze.
Interesting ideas, but I'm wondering how you plan on compensating the owners of the cookie-cutter neighborhoods and strip malls you plan to tear down and convert back into farm land. Also, what do you plan on telling people who live there and don't buy into the new urbanist ideas and don't like that type of living arrangement. Sounds like some details need to be worked out.
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:14 PM
 
74 posts, read 119,709 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter73 View Post
Interesting ideas, but I'm wondering how you plan on compensating the owners of the cookie-cutter neighborhoods and strip malls you plan to tear down and convert back into farm land. Also, what do you plan on telling people who live there and don't buy into the new urbanist ideas and don't like that type of living arrangement. Sounds like some details need to be worked out.
I don't, these are wishful ideas that are only practical in a perfect world
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