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Old 06-17-2009, 04:15 PM
 
7,852 posts, read 12,424,637 times
Reputation: 2605
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr View Post
I know...keep reading my post. I said it's not whether the city was around 30 years ago, it's that it's much different than what it was before. Denver is a much different place than it was 10 years ago. My dad has a company in Commerce City (then)/Denver (now), and when I was a little tyke a few years ago, Denver was much different. Stapleton, Lowry, etc. My point is these cities are considered new not due to their age, but due to the recent population growth.

My point is...a city can be a "much different place" due to booming population growth and development, but it's the same city underneath with "newness" on the surface. That surface is many times what non-residents and people unfamiliar with the city will use to label it a "new" city. To those of us familiar with the city for many years, we still see the same city at ground level.

Atlanta's population growth has been trememndous since 2007, increasing by 41%. But it's nothing new...it's the highest percentage of any decade since 1900, but each decade has seen huge amounts of growth:

1910 - 24%
1920 - 19%
1930 - 15%
1940 - 15%
1950 - 22%
1960 - 31%
1970 - 34%
1980 - 27%
1990 - 22%
2000 - 39%
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Old 06-17-2009, 04:38 PM
Status: "Happy Halloween!" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
69,122 posts, read 58,222,176 times
Reputation: 19671
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr View Post
I know...keep reading my post. I said it's not whether the city was around 30 years ago, it's that it's much different than what it was before. Denver is a much different place than it was 10 years ago. My dad has a company in Commerce City (then)/Denver (now), and when I was a little tyke a few years ago, Denver was much different. Stapleton, Lowry, etc. My point is these cities are considered new not due to their age, but due to the recent population growth.
I agree with DeaconJ who followed me. I get the feeling you're a fairly young guy. I have lived here 29 years of my adulthood. I'd say it's the "same but different". Honestly, I don't notice much difference between now and 10 years ago, but maybe that's just b/c I'm getting old, LOL!
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Augusta GA
830 posts, read 1,749,610 times
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It's not all of the suburbs either Deacon, places like East Point and Decatur actually have densities closer to Atlanta itself. Its the areas OTP that really account for much of the sprawl. These areas tend to have subdivisions that skip over areas of open land causing the sprawl to go out even further (kind of like Octopus tenticles).
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:39 PM
 
330 posts, read 332,889 times
Reputation: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr View Post
Oh there's definitely rural areas in the outer burbs like in New Hampshire, but isn't that the way it's supposed to be? (Also, not to be picky but Boston's MSA is actually just a hair over 1,000/sq mile) The urban area of Boston accounts for over 89% of the population of the MSA in less than 40% of the land. (Metro: 4,522,858, 4,511 sq miles; Urban: 4,032,484, 1,774 sq miles). I guess I'm just being picky, but I'd call that a pretty dense area.
LOL. No. The Boston urbanized area had only 2200 ppsm as of 2000, and it's even lower now. That's low even by US standards (the US average is about 2800 ppsm). In fact, it's one of the lowest of any large urbanized area in the entire world.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:33 AM
 
Location: São Paulo
6,303 posts, read 7,493,597 times
Reputation: 3648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I agree with DeaconJ who followed me. I get the feeling you're a fairly young guy. I have lived here 29 years of my adulthood. I'd say it's the "same but different". Honestly, I don't notice much difference between now and 10 years ago, but maybe that's just b/c I'm getting old, LOL!
Yea I guess I'm relatively young (24). I suppose it's much different for you and Deacon since you've lived in an area for a considerable amount of time. I'm giving an outsiders perspective of cities like Phoenix and to a lesser extent, Atlanta.
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:05 AM
Status: "Happy Halloween!" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
69,122 posts, read 58,222,176 times
Reputation: 19671
Well, Phoenix is sprawly to a certain extent. But the newer developments have tiny lots and little vegetation on them. So they are learning.

I was thinking about the numbers for Denver. I think the reason the pop. density seems so low for the MSA is that the MSA includes Weld County; only the SW part of the county is actually part of the metro area. It goes all the way up to Wyoming, a huge county with not a lot of people. Also, some of the mountain counties are included (Clear Creek and I think one other) and they do have low pop. density. Again, only a few people who live in the areas closest to Denver are working in the metro area. Even Jefferson County, adjoioning Denver on the west side, is only dense until Golden or so, then it becomes pretty rural/mountainous. So these numbers should always be looked at with a grain of salt.
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:47 AM
 
Location: São Paulo
6,303 posts, read 7,493,597 times
Reputation: 3648
I see what you're saying. However, I suppose you can see the "sprawl" of certain cities just by looking at satellite images on www.bing.com/maps . If you're interested, check out the satellite views of Phoenix or Houston with 5 or 10 miles as the measuring bar on the bottom right. When you look at those cities, it's a gigantic blob pushing from the city center all the way out through the suburbs with basically the same density throughout the area.

If you look at the same maps of Philly or Boston, and even NYC (though the urban area is gigantic), the centers of the cities are white/grey then almost become completely green with low-density development, but then outside the cities there are well-seperated satellite cities which then become dense again (for Philly it would be cities like Norristown, Wilmington and Trenton; for Boston it's the old mill-towns of Lawrence, Lowell and then Worcester out West). To me, that makes those cities less "sprawly" simply because there seems to be many seperate cities within the greater MSA/Urban area, rather than an unbroken blanket of suburbia.

I suppose in the end they're the same beast, just a different breed.
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:02 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,262 posts, read 7,525,464 times
Reputation: 2901
Phoenix
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:10 PM
 
2,438 posts, read 4,966,475 times
Reputation: 1371
My gut feeling...Phoenix, Houston and LA... although LA's sprawl is a few decades older so it seems more ingrained.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
556 posts, read 854,818 times
Reputation: 204
Charlotte, Winston-Salem, Greensboro and Raleigh-Durham may not have the most sprawl, but it definitely has to be some of the most unorganized sprawl in America. I'll give it to LA, it may be huge and miserable, but at least there are many main through ways, which these cities don't have.
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