Article On Crime In Utah. (St. George, Tooele: health insurance, motel, live)

[cottonwood2420]

deseretnews.com | A string of major tragedies

[SergeantL]

Don't misunderstand me, because I believe murder is serious business, but 21 murders in the entire state is an enviable number. Oakland, CA had 148 murders in 2006 and right across the bay, San Francisco had 102. Now, if you think those numbers are bad, I can remember when there were over 300 murders a year in Oakland in the late 80s and early 90s. Additionally, I worked on a joint task force to rid East Palo Alto, CA of gangs, which ran the murder rate of that city over 2 homicides a day for 18 months. For nearly two years, E. Palo Alto was considered the murder capital of the world.

I will say this; as the demographics of Utah change, there will be a corresponding rise in every category of crime, including homicide.

[Lisa_from_Debary]

Utah and a couple other MidWest states have a HUGE Meth problem...When I worked in mental health we managed a part of Utah and this was far and away the worse problem they had.

[Trebek]

Dallas averaged between 300 and 400 murders a year in the late 90's. Now it's just above 200 murders a year. Most were people involved with bad things, and knew each other. Utah is safe. It will be for years to come.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by Lisa_from_Debary

Utah and a couple other MidWest states have a HUGE Meth problem...When I worked in mental health we managed a part of Utah and this was far and away the worse problem they had.

When working in any field, issues loom larger than life. When I was a cop, there were times when I thought crime was out of control, but such was not the reality. The problem was nothing more than I had my face against the tree. When I backed away, I could see the tree was a Poplar and not a Giant Redwood.

I am sure there are meth users in Utah and the Midwest, but I would want more than anecdotal experiences to make a determination as to actual extent of the problem.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by Trebek

Most were people involved with bad things, and knew each other.

Us cops called it cleansing the gene pool.

[Lisa_from_Debary]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

When working in any field, issues loom larger than life. When I was a cop, there were times when I thought crime was out of control, but such was not the reality. The problem was nothing more than I had my face against the tree. When I backed away, I could see the tree was a Poplar and not a Giant Redwood.

I am sure there are meth users in Utah and the Midwest, but I would want more than anecdotal experiences to make a determination as to actual extent of the problem.

My information is based in statistical data gathered by a National mental health insurance company. They took each of their populations and categorized the diagnoses codes. They also cross categorized things like if these people also suffered from diabetes, high blood pressure, were suicidal or homicidal...it is FAR from anecdotal.

You might want to check out this link as well.
Methamphetamine Use, Abuse, and Dependence: 2002, 2003, and 2004

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by Lisa_from_Debary

My information is based in statistical data gathered by a National mental health insurance company. They took each of their populations and categorized the diagnoses codes. They also cross categorized things like if these people also suffered from diabetes, high blood pressure, were suicidal or homicidal...it is FAR from anecdotal.

You might want to check out this link as well.
Methamphetamine Use, Abuse, and Dependence: 2002, 2003, and 2004

First, the data on this page are based on percentages of admissions, subcategorized by various factors such as demographics and local. It does not estimate the per capita incidence of use. Next, the data represents the entire United States. Although the numbers are increasing, this data isn’t very revealing: I have used the data to make some estimates:

Assumptions:

• Admissions to mental health facilities due to problems associated with methamphetamine use grew 25% per annum since 2004; the current number of cases would be 605,500 nationwide.
  
• The current population of the United States is 302,237,879.
  
• The current population of Utah is 2,600,000 (represents growth since Mar 06 est.)
  
• Methamphetamine users are evenly distributed across all states. (Unlikely)

Using the assumed data, I estimate that the current 100,000 per capita rate of incidence in the United States is 114, and the total number of cases represents .2% of the total population. This data would also indicate a total mental health methamphetamine case population of nearly 3000 or .11% of the total population in Utah, which is half of the national average.

Again, these are assumptions based on the article. I can’t find any hard numbers on meth abuse rates in Utah. If I am close, then .11% of the population does not seem huge to me.

I did find the attached article. You might find it interesting.

Tooele Transcript Bulletin On-line (broken link)

[Blondie-Rabbit]

Sergeant, I suggest you call the local police departments in both St. George and Cedar City. It is common knowledge in this part of Utah that the meth labs exist and are constantly being found and people being jailed. It has been that way since before I moved away nearly 30 years ago. The spectrum Newspaper has accounts of it all the time. My Son-in-law works for the state department. He warned me about it before we moved here. I told him it was nothing new, and common knowledge.

I find that you need everything substantiaed that is why I suggest you call the police departments, and get a subscription to the Spectrum.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by Blondie-Rabbit

Sergeant, I suggest you call the local police departments in both St. George and Cedar City. It is common knowledge in this part of Utah that the meth labs exist and are constantly being found and people being jailed. It has been that way since before I moved away nearly 30 years ago. The spectrum Newspaper has accounts of it all the time. My Son-in-law works for the state department. He warned me about it before we moved here. I told him it was nothing new, and common knowledge.

I find that you need everything substantiaed that is why I suggest you call the police departments, and get a subscription to the Spectrum.

Blonde,

Yes, I do like facts. Next, I can call any police department in the United States and learn they discover labs. Sonoma County California was considered the meth lab capital of the United States for a very long time; however, the incidence of meth use within the county did not reflect the large number of labs. Lastly, any process is classified as a lab. I can make meth in my kitchen with over the counter products, or I can manufacture on an industrial scale.

Continuing, it also has much to do with where one lives. Before I purchased land in a rural area of Carbon County, the first thing I did was check with the Sheriff's Department. One of my concerns was related to the frequency of "lab dumps," which make the property owner liable for hazardous materials remediation. According to the Carbon County Sheriff's Department, such events are very rare and most labs are found in remote areas of the surrounding National Parks. This is consistent with the "Cooker" mentality. They want seclusion. I haven’t seen a weekend motel bathtub cooker in eons.

The discovery of labs and users is not out of the norm, but neither indicates a problem of epidemic proportions. You need to keep a few things in mind. Police departments want funding, so they have a tendency to frame their activities in such a manner so as to create a crisis picture, which motivates their political controllers to increase funding or at least maintain the status quo. Next, papers need to sell their product, so they focus on the bad and love terms which sensationalize the actual event. Finally, a headline reading, “POLICE SMASH METH LAB, TWO ARRESTED,” could be nothing more than Bevis and Butthead making meth from left over antihistamines for a total yield of 1/16th of a gram.

After 35-years in the business, labs, newspaper stories, and a few thousand Crankers don’t cause me to loose any sleep. If you want to really see a problem. PM me and I will arrange a guided tour of Hunters Point and the Tenderloin in San Francisco.