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Old 09-29-2006, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
378 posts, read 1,281,763 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal2Utah View Post
Wow... is all I have to say. Just read through this entire thread, and I'm apalled at the Mormon religion as a whole right now.
I find it interesting that someone who barely practices their own religion can criticize an others. Your general statement reeks of ignorance. This one time I read through a thread about muslims and let me tell you!

The people who came to Utah in the first place didn't come here by choice. Now that the land has been prepared and the infastructure built, everyone complains about the majority who built it. On my last trip to the Vatican I wondered how I could change Vatican City to help them realize that I was Mormon and didn't want to be around all the wine.

When I lived in NY and in the South I can assure you LDS folks are far more persecuted for their beliefs than Catholics or Protestant here in SLC.

Time to put on big boy pants and make the BIG decision to move here.

Rant over....
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Old 09-30-2006, 07:15 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
5 posts, read 13,314 times
Reputation: 11
Once again, please don't judge a world wide church based on the Mormons living in Utah...most of us DON'T LIVE THERE! If you are having problems with a certain group of kids let the parents know! Don't use the religion as an excuse for their kids bad behavior! As a Mormon mom, if my kids did that they would get the politically incorrect spanking of their lives. But first I would need to know! Kids can be cruel no matter what religion they practice.
P.S. I wouldn't talk about Mormons becoming socially outcast...that's been the case from before the church was formally organized.
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Old 10-04-2006, 03:35 AM
 
18 posts, read 53,235 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaskoyle View Post
Once again, please don't judge a world wide church based on the Mormons living in Utah...most of us DON'T LIVE THERE! If you are having problems with a certain group of kids let the parents know! Don't use the religion as an excuse for their kids bad behavior! As a Mormon mom, if my kids did that they would get the politically incorrect spanking of their lives. But first I would need to know! Kids can be cruel no matter what religion they practice.
P.S. I wouldn't talk about Mormons becoming socially outcast...that's been the case from before the church was formally organized.
I agree! We moved from WA to Utah last yr. We live in a great neighborhood and we really enjoy our neighbors(both LDS and Non). We teach our children(We are LDS) to NOT judge others based upon their religious views, skin color, the clothes they wear and many other things. My kids have friends in our neighborhood but not all of the kids hang out 24/7. My 5 y/o's best friend is not LDS and is Japenese! ANYWAY, as recent as a month ago MY own children had rocks thrown at them on the way home from school. My children are LDS and the children who threw them were also LDS. So,my point is, kids can be REALLY mean! I did talk to the child's parents and there hasn't been a problem since then. I'm not discrediting the original OP at all. I feel bad about her little boy being singled out. As a parent I would be very upset(and was!) if that happened to my child. I also would be horrified if MY child participated in hurting another child. My child would be in HUGE trouble for doing something like that.
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Old 10-04-2006, 12:30 PM
 
27 posts, read 68,897 times
Reputation: 24
Holy Smokes isakswings! If everyone parent had your attitude, this world would be "almost" trouble-free. Excellent attitude for any parent to have!

I too have heard that living in a LDS town is rather difficult and it has been on my mind through the whole decision process of finding a place to retire. After our two visits to Ogden, we encountered friendly and helpful people...except at the baseball stadium where they wouldn't let me to take pictures before a game :-)

On the other side of the coin, I live in South Carolina where the folks are suppose to be the most friendly people in the world. Now, I don't get out often but when I do, I find the people to be rude and unhelpful where ever I go in town. As far as my neighborhood? I do all the good neighbor things...walk over and talk to them when they are outside, offer to help with things and the usual things you expect neighbors to do and be. Where does it get me? Blank stares and a nod of the head at best. I know the names of my neighbors but not one of them do I consider friendly. I try my best without being pushy or "too friendly" and nothing seems to help. My friends that live in other parts of town experience the same thing.

So, if I could just find a neighborhood in the Ogden area where the folks would just smiles and render the proper greeting like Hello or How are you, I'd be way ahead of the game. Sounds like LDS neighbors or nonLDS neighbor, Utah is just a friendly place to live.

I feel "more better" about my move to Utah each and every day I read posts on this website.

Last edited by TopKnot; 10-04-2006 at 12:34 PM.. Reason: Spelling/Grammar
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Old 10-04-2006, 08:25 PM
 
56 posts, read 232,119 times
Reputation: 62
Well here's my 2 cents. I've lived around Mormons for about 10 years now, both in Idaho and Utah. I think the religion as a whole and the believers as individuals have both an upside and a downside, just like most things. I have great friendly LDS neighbors that wave, stop to talk, will offer help and accept help when needed and are just all around great folks. Most of the time however, we stay in our separate worlds. I can't say that I've developed a close friendship with a member of the church, but I can say that if I needed anything I think they would rally around to help. The couple of women that I have gotten to know a little better strike me as fairly sheltered, not unlike people you would meet in a smaller town, but I live in Salt Lake City. That being said, we have had a few unsettling experiences. Just a couple of days after we moved in the local bishop and another man showed up at our door and started to go on about Joseph Smith, the book of Mormon and how they know its true because there were witnesses who said it was true and on and on and on....When my DH said we were Jewish, they left politely and a couple of days later brought over a Xerox copy of a long church document on the relationship between the Mormons and the Jews. We just found this amusing but harmless. Our good friends however, very devout Catholics, had the same two visitors who came into their home, chatted a few minutes, then started on the same topic of Mormonism. When our friends said they were Catholic, the response was "Well, I'll look down from heaven and see you in hell." I kid you not. That is what I find so unsettling about living among the Mormons, they are very nice folks, but I just get the feeling that there is a fanatacism that is waiting to come out at times. I've also been invited to seemingly friendly outings only to be bombarded with Mormon doctrine and ideology (this would take longer to fully explain, but take my word for it...it can make a person skeptical of further invitations). All in all, I just view it almost as I would living in a foreign country, you just adapt, try to learn as much as you can, find like minded friends for support and try to get along. Most of the time you will be pleasantly surprised.
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Old 10-17-2006, 08:40 PM
 
2 posts, read 4,210 times
Reputation: 11
Its to bad that here in utah that the non lds folk can actualy be more friendly than the lds folk. an extreme example is the nudists & naturists that live here . although our kids arnt allowed to participate , we are a fiendly NON Sexual . group in our group we have folks who are thin , tall,short , plump,disabled,blond, brunett, red head, , bald, bearded,old,young(over18)we do not discriminate in race,creed,or color. we all wear 1 button suits(bellybutton) and we like each other for who we are not all the textile trappings & bs. there are lds bishops,catholic priests , policemen,&women, firemen& women,doctors ,lawyers,carpenters,brick masons,tech oriented folks etc . we have one constant we help each other . some of the church (lds) folk have forgotten to welcome the new neighbor, help clear his snow , sand bag his house in the event of flood, so when you need help you may get it from the unlikeliest folks , & by the way were good christians as well. may good bless you in all you do even if you arn't the predominate faith. and remember to always wear a smile ...I do. kurly
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:16 PM
 
129 posts, read 345,596 times
Reputation: 54
Default Another voice

Hi! I'm brand new here but am jumping into the fray, feet first: St. Geo, you sound just a wee bit prejudiced yourself (and methinks you don't understand as much about the "Mormon" church as you think you do--reference your understanding of the title 'Elder). Yes, Mormons can be cold, they can be zenophobic---big time, they are usually super-busy, etc., etc., but you seem to be equating the members of the LDS church with the Church. Big difference!

The problem is, most lds are just people, struggling along, bowed down sometimes within an insular society of their own making, dealing with their own prejudice, their own sorrows. However, I guarantee if you ever run into a member of the LDS Church who faithfully follows the teaching of same, you will find one of the best individual you will ever know, and that individual will love and befriend you.

Little background here: I was born and raised in So. Utah (not St. Geo), and I was called names, had rocks thrown at me, and was lonely and without friends most of my childhood, and why? Although I lived in a predominantly lds community, and was a member of that church, my skin was brown!

Prejudice is ugly and know no bounds---but the hateful actions directed at me had nothing to do with the church or its teachings, and everything to do with the small-mindedness and ignorance of individuals (by the way, did you talk with the parents of the children who went after your child?). Continuing the story: I grew up and moved away, to California to be exact, and lived there for over 30 years. Recently I moved back to Utah, and my next-door neighbor refused to shake hands with me because I came "from California!" Go figure!! I understand said neighbor is a "Mormon," but he has a long way to go to be a true Christian! But should I condemn the church because of his response?

Look a little deeper into the hearts of your neighbors; surely you'll find someone, here and there, who will be a true friend (and anyone who has one or two true friends is rich indeed)--and, in the meantime, instead of isolating yourself, consider joining the different community groups, PTA, art associations, historical and/or beautifcation groups, etc. People worth knowing will appreciate your commitment, service and dedication, and barriers will go down.

Also, how about studying a little history. Find out about the history of the LDS Church and its people, the persecution and loss they went through. You don't have to join the church to develop an appreciation of their history--and maybe that knowlege will give you deeper understanding of why they are like they are---even when they're not being the best they could be! I'm not excusing anyone for bad manners (or worse), but, as has been said, if you come into any community, of whatever religious/non-religious heritage and start faulting them, or ridiculing their structure---especially if it's a group that has a close/closed relationship because of past hurts---you cannot expect open arms.
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Old 10-20-2006, 11:58 PM
 
Location: western u.s., planet earth
307 posts, read 692,305 times
Reputation: 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by living in st george View Post
If you are not part of this system, you are basically on the outskirts of the community. Homes are sold through word of mouth at church, different events and social activities are planned and told about at church... Basically everything evolves around the church.
Thank you so much for sharing your message.

I took a trip through the west last fall looking for a place to move and at homes. In 7 of the cities I contacted a real estate agent and I had no trouble at all finding one to show me some neighborhoods except for one place. I should add that 4 of the towns were planned, and the last 3 were added when my trip was extended.

In Cedar City I went to office after office, and found absolutely NOT EVEN ONE AGENT who was willing to show me the neighborhoods in the town. As a real estate broker myself I was astounded at their incompetence and thought them quite backward. One agent told me she couldn't leave the office but would print a list of properties for me to drive by. This was nice and if I was to go back would do business with her.

Now after reading your message, I understand what the problem was with the agents. They were redlining me because I didn't live in their neighborhood, wasn't Mormon, and didn't go to their church.
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Old 10-21-2006, 06:53 AM
 
1,646 posts, read 4,597,371 times
Reputation: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlvs2run View Post
Now after reading your message, I understand what the problem was with the agents. They were redlining me because I didn't live in their neighborhood, wasn't Mormon, and didn't go to their church.
Not to be flippant -- but how did they know you were not Mormon? Did you tell them? Did they ask?

Do you even know if those agents were Mormons? Did you try any other Utah towns and have the same experience? To take one experience of incompetence, with no evidence to support your claim of discrimination, and generalize it to a whole population of millions of people just doesn't work.

Did you ever think that perhaps you had a hard time finding a real estate agent because southern Utah is among the fastest growing areas in the whole country? Maybe those agents are swamped with enough business that they can't or don't feel the need to aggressively seek after every new lead they find.

When I read posts like this, it shows me that there can be as much or more stereotyping and bias on the other side as well. Sorry if that offends you.
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Old 10-21-2006, 03:39 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,958 times
Reputation: 10
Ok, I'm really going out on a limb, I'm Catholic and gay and I'm thinking of transferring to St. George. What can I expect? Is there a gay "life" at all, even if very quiet?

this is a very serious enquiry.. please, all non hate feedback welcome
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