From California to Utah? (Provo, Ogden: fit in, crime, how much)

[Fresno_Ken]

My wife and I live in Fresno, California with our two children, four years old and two years old, and to be honest we hate it. It may be perfect for some, but it has never been for us. I moved here from Boise, ID in 1989 and my wife has lived here all her life. I loved Boise, Idaho but not really interested in going back. (I left after a bitter divorce). We are looking for a place more affordable, less crime, slower pace, not over 100 degrees half of the summer, and still within a days drive of Fresno as to be close enough for a visit from time to time to see our family. Every place we have checked out in California is just too busy, too expensive, and just not for us. Not to mention, crime seems to be a way of life in here. I am not trying to insult California or the people here, but my own experiences and what I hear about all the time from co-workers and friends have formed my opinions. I was thinking about SLC, Ogden, Provo, and even farther north such as Providence or Logan. My wife and I are nearly in our forties and I am concerned that with the mean age in Provo for instance being 23 or in Ogden being 28 that we may not fit in. Also, even though I do not know how much people in California really know about Utah, I hear comments from people that because of the Salt Lake that there is an odor that comes off the lake during the summer months? If this is true, does it affect the surrounding towns? Again, I don't know so that is why I am asking. As far as economy, I own a business in California that does not require my presence. So I do not need to worry about a slow economy or finding new employment but my wife would still like to be able to go shopping, have a variety of choices in family dining, and have something to do other than look at the scenery. So a town of five thousand might be too small, but Fresno at over 400,000 is way too big!

So is Utah worth taking a look at? We are planning to drive there next weekend to spend a few days.

Ken

[coolcats]

See above for my opinion on the whole fitting in issue. As for the median age -- Provo is probably extra low because it has BYU college students who make up a large percentage of the population. The rest of Utah is young because families do have more kids per capita, which would lower the average age.

I have a four and two year-old too, and there are lots of kids in our neighborhood. So from that aspect -- your family would be typical in that regard.

As for lake stink as it is called, it does exist. You can "smell" when a cold front comes through. It happens maybe every couple of weeks for a morning. It's not too overbearing -- certainly no worse than the pig farms I smelled at my house in Iowa growing up! The first time I even noticed it was when my brother-in-law, visiting from Washington State asked what it was.

The Wasatch Front (Ogden to Salt Lake to Provo) is rather large -- 1.5 million people or so. So shopping is plentiful, but if you are looking for something smaller, Logan might fit the bill. Just remember, smaller towns = less diversity.

[jnay]

? have you thought about Cedar City? I think the population is between 30 to 40,000. It sounds like it has the kind of weather you are looking for, within a days drive of Fresno and shopping, dining and things to do locally, St. George 30 min., Las Vegas 2 1/2 hours. It's worth checking into.

[Fresno_Ken]

Let me first begin by saying that I am not stating a fact only an impression.... I have never visited Utah so I only have what I read, hear, and my judgment in which to make an intelligent decision. (I do plan on visiting before I make any decision). If I were trying to convince a jury or prove a point then it would be important to provide hard facts to support my belief. But since this is not a trial but just my opinion from what limited resources I have had, how I feel is an important part of making a decision to move to Utah or not.

I had thought about southern parts of Utah. St George seemed closer to Fresno, California and from pictures a friend should me around St. George or Cedar City (he mentioned both cities and I never really paid attention to where he actually had bought land) I thought it was beautiful. Then I found this site and although SLC area seems to be diversified and acceptant of NON-LDS, St. George does not. Maybe the few who wrote on this site where the rare and uncommon... I realize that a restaurant for example may receive 1 complaint out of 100 because the people who are happy don't always take time to pay a compliment or speak out but the one person who is unhappy does find the time.... but what if I am the one out of 100? I tend to be outspoken. Being honest is a good thing, but believe me, there is such a thing as being too honest that can be a bad thing. I tend to hinge on being too honest.

I really want to drive up to Logan. I liked North Logan and Providence. The community of Providence seemed really small but just a minute or two from Logan which from I what I have read is about 40,000 or so. I was hoping someone who is from or knows Logan could tell me a little about the town and what I might expect when I go up there. I want to try to convince my wife to go next weekend.

Ken

[cleosmom]

Just to let you know, my husband and I both hailed from Fresno. We left there in the early 90's to escape the same stuff you'd like to escape and we went to southeast Idaho which basically has the same make up as areas of Utah. We're non-LDS and doing just fine, however we're not raising kids.

If you have an income and you move into a blended area, which the Salt Lake Valley is blended, than I don't think you'll have much of a problem at all.

[Fresno_Ken]

So far I have been very impressed with SLC and the areas north of SLC. My favorite place that I have researched so far has been Logan. The city of Logan has seemed to be very friendly and already two individuals from Logan have corresponded with me and made me feel I will be very welcomed. Contrary to the worries I have had that members of LDS would not accept a non-LDS family, both individuals are LDS families. Although I have not had a chance to drive up there from Fresno yet, I really wonder if it is like some have said abut attitude AND the actual location you choose. I think you have to have both. I live in Fresno and don't know one LDS memeber, but I also don't know my neighbors either. They keep to themselves and don't seem to want new friends. My neighbor directly next door is even a pastor and I think I have only spoke to him three times since I moved here. And those three conversations were all initiated by me. Being unfriendly isn't a LDS thing, it is really a people problem. The more I talk to people and email the two individuals I hope to consider friends even though I have never met them in person, I wish I was already living in Logan, Utah.

And from the maps, Eastern Idaho isn't very far from Logan is it? It really seems Southern Utah is where I need to stay away. LOL No offense to anyone from Southern Utah... it's just it seems that being non-LDS I would be better accepted in the SLC area from the various posts from non-LDS living in cities in southern Utah.

[cleosmom]

It's a tad under 900 miles Fresno to Logan.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by Fresno_Ken

So far I have been very impressed with SLC and the areas north of SLC. My favorite place that I have researched so far has been Logan. The city of Logan has seemed to be very friendly and already two individuals from Logan have corresponded with me and made me feel I will be very welcomed. Contrary to the worries I have had that members of LDS would not accept a non-LDS family, both individuals are LDS families. Although I have not had a chance to drive up there from Fresno yet, I really wonder if it is like some have said abut attitude AND the actual location you choose. I think you have to have both. I live in Fresno and don't know one LDS memeber, but I also don't know my neighbors either. They keep to themselves and don't seem to want new friends. My neighbor directly next door is even a pastor and I think I have only spoke to him three times since I moved here. And those three conversations were all initiated by me. Being unfriendly isn't a LDS thing, it is really a people problem. The more I talk to people and email the two individuals I hope to consider friends even though I have never met them in person, I wish I was already living in Logan, Utah.

And from the maps, Eastern Idaho isn't very far from Logan is it? It really seems Southern Utah is where I need to stay away. LOL No offense to anyone from Southern Utah... it's just it seems that being non-LDS I would be better accepted in the SLC area from the various posts from non-LDS living in cities in southern Utah.

I would just add that whenever there is a majority, such as LDS people in Utah, it is easy to infer that it is the culture/traditions/stereotypes of that majority are to blame. Perhaps, as you say, it is a people problem instead. I hardly knew my neighbors in Washington DC either, and that area is very diverse.

I will say that the culture of the Mormon church does tend to provide LDS people with a natural social setting, so they might tend to go a church social rather than a community breakfast for example. So that could be a factor why some people here don't get to know all of their neighbors.

Some people on this board have felt excluded, or that their kids were not accepted. It is not for me to say whether it really was because they were not LDS or not. I hope that was not they case.

I just want to raise the possibility that they experienced a more universal phenomonen in our modern society of people not getting to know their neighbors. And perhaps since the bad experience happened in Utah, it was easiest and most natural to blame the problem on the predominate culture.

[chazcrew]

Fresno Ken, Logan is an absolutely gorgeous area. It has a sort of secluded, protected feeling. It has the advantage of a university, which gives it the energy of a college town, while still being somewhat cut off by mountains, which keeps it quiet and small. I have family ties to the area, and every time I visit, I come away feeling that the atmosphere there is very welcoming and friendly. Just one warning: watch out for the snow. Logan is very cold and gets a lot of snow in winter. I'm a bit of a snow bunny and wouldn't mind that myself, but you might be in for a shock, coming from Fresno! Make sure you eat some of the famous local ice cream when you get there.

[Fresno_Ken]

I just want to say for the record that I do not know why people have written posts expressing that as non-LDS they have felt excluded or like a stranger in their own communities. I am a person that does try to analyze facts as much as possible... assumptions only lead to trouble. However, the fact is many non-LDS do seem to feel that they do not belong. That is evident in the posts throughout this site. And I do find that a little sad. I am hoping that my experience will be different. If you examine human nature, minorities tend to be excluded from the fold. This happens with race, age, income levels, education... there is no doubt the type or level of "discrimination" (for lack of a better word) is different depending on the "difference" between groups or individuals but the fact that people tend follow the old saying "birds of feather flock together" is true..... And those not part of flock sometimes get "pecked".

Since I am not LDS and do not have any experiences in Utah to date, I am going to make this my last post on the subject. I do not want to take any chances on further offending anyone or continue to spread a "rumor" that people in Utah treat non-LDS poorly. I have found that the people have replied and emailed me to be awesome and not even shown a hint that my being non-LDS was a problem. If anything, I have more respect for their faith than ever.

I would love to hear from anyone from Logan or the small surrounding towns. I was planning to go this weekend but I think we are going to put it off until the first week of October.

Thanks!
Ken