Relocators! How do you like Utah so far? (Sandy, St. George: travel, job)

[dogmom]

I have said before that the people native to this state live in a bubble. Never seen anything like it, don't expect to ever see it anywhere else.

[catrinac]

Originally Posted by Blondie-Rabbit

Catrinac, you have a very big ax to grind about Mormons..........
As usual this has turned into nothing more than a excuse to bash Mormons...... ISome on here have proven they refuse to accept what this place is. That hatred that was a spark has grown.

In all fairness I think this is probably true. I did not move to this state hating Mormons, far from it. I moved here with the open mind my Texan parents instilled in me. I was all prepared to approach the situation with a lot of detatchment and had no idea what I was up against. What people who accuse us outsiders of "bashing" don't understand is that the bad attitudes form in RESPONSE to the Mormon's behaviors. I believe the Mormons are so insulated and arrogant that they just don't know how to deal with anyone who doesn't fall in lockstep with them and their beliefs. I moved here not really knowing what those were--- how important looks are to them, how fanatical they are about marriage and children, and how somehow, their adherence to certain conservative values has become a "religion". Believe me, I was raised in Midland, Texas, the hometown of George W. Bush, and I DO know what a conservative community looks and feels like. Maybe really I had forgotten, in all honesty. I never endured the mistreatment I have experienced here, though. I have never witnessed anything like it in my life.

[catrinac]

I got the theory from various newsbureaus who have reported the story. Unhappy In Utah, Study: 'Beehive State' Leads Nation in Anti-Depressant Prescriptions - CBS News I have no idea what causes so many people here to need an antidepressant. I do not, by the way, have an "axe" to grind in posting this. This is important information for people to know.

Originally Posted by Blondie-Rabbit

You're in SLC where you have the inversion layer all winter long. Most other places in Utah are not dismal in the winter. Ever hear of the fallacy of (I can't spell it, its a french word) tue que qua? Your statement about prozac falls definately into that catagory of fallacy. I don't dispute the stat, but your reason behind it.

[Blondie-Rabbit]

Yes it is axes that are being ground and out right hatred in some posts that have come out in this forum. You only have to read the back posts of those who bash the Mormons to find yes it is hatred. The OP of this thread is a perfect example of this in her past posts. ALL THE PROBLEMS associated with LDS/Mormons can be found in other areas of the country. The customer service issue is rampent in all states. I found it no different than the customer service I had in San Francisco area, or Nashville TN. Those places I've lived in the past 12 years. I find it is a national trend not just Utah. Yet those who are comfortable with the service they had where they came from come here and think it is new. Out of that past comfort zone it is a change, and it smacks you in the face when you move since it is not the norm of what you were use to.

As to the thing about cosmetic surgeries and the obbsession with appearance, It is also nation wide. It's just like the false statements the OP of this thread has made many times about how every Mormon has been divorced 3-6- or more times. That perpetuates the myths that because you find one or two, then all must be so. I do not believe statistics unless I see the sampling of questions, and how the survey was conducted. News agencies are nortorious for skewing the questions and the results. This is not to say that there is truth in it, but almost every time you will find that it is not as bad as reported. It wouldn't make as good a story if it was not enhanced. CBS should do one on the use of anti depresenants and cosemtic surgeries in say San Francisco area. SLC is a small spot compared to the rest of the state. Try So. Utah and wonder why the women down here seem to let themselves go? They definately are not obsessed with appearances, and have no room to complain about what someone else looks like.

Catrinac since you seem to only associate with just Mormons in SLC, I suggest that you go out and meet the other 51% of the population that by your assumptions wouldn't care what you look like. Or could it be that it was also non Mormons that were making you in your mind feel bad about what you looked like. You also stated that you had looked into plastic surgery long before you came to Utah. I'm glad you did what you felt you needed to do before you came here. I hope that it is successful and will help with your self esteem issues. If it doesn't, I would start looking at what other causes there are for your preceieved non acceptence.

I'm alsxo one who will say that many of the LDS?Mormons do lock step in and don't think. We are taught to be humble and accepting. Yet we are also told to learn and research out the answers for ourselves. Not all Mormons are alike. I'm one of the more outspoken ones. I've lived all over the country and a couple of other countries. I've seen the Mormon's in all of those places. Being conservative is not a religion, it is the religion that is conservative. In today's society you see people who are liberal and supposedly accepting of all ideologies, being extremely non accepting of anything that does not smack of their liberal views and you must lock step into their beliefs or you are considered evil or dimwitted. Now I ask is that any different from what the Mormons are being accused of in this state? Seems the kettle is calling the pot black.

[cinnabon]

Originally Posted by Blondie-Rabbit

In today's society you see people who are liberal and supposedly accepting of all ideologies, being extremely non accepting of anything that does not smack of their liberal views and you must lock step into their beliefs or you are considered evil or dimwitted. Now I ask is that any different from what the Mormons are being accused of in this state? Seems the kettle is calling the pot black.

I understand where you are sick of hearing people trash the Mormons, but this kind of ridiculous argument doesn't help your cause. It's complete BS, and here is why. Most areas have much more diversity, so no, there is no "lock stepping" into any particular view or ideology. Everyone is different, so differences are expected and accepted.

Utah is extremely unique in that there is such an influential dominant culture that makes up a very significant part of the population. And this culture has very strong views about what kind of behavior is and isn't acceptable, which I'm sure sometimes leads to people being rather judgmental towards those whose behavior differs. It makes sense that outsiders stand out more in Utah than they would in other places.

[lolagranola]

I have said before that the people native to this state live in a bubble. Never seen anything like it, don't expect to ever see it anywhere else.

My Mom says this when she visits. Last year we went back to SC for 2 weeks to visit her, and by the time we were leaving, I was saying "I want my bubble!!" Even though I used to live there, after being gone and living in a "bubble", I forgot...the racism, every single person smoking, the racism, drinking every night and many lunch hours, the racism, the yankee-haters, the racism, the total lack of tact and manners. I love this bubble!!

That said, no matter who you are or where you grow up, your environment will be your "normal". So it should not be a surprise that native Utahns don't realize how isolated they are.

[lolagranola]

[QUOTEI had a birthday party of 11 year olds at my house the other day 2 out of 15 of them knew who the current president of the united states is. 9 of 15 knew who the current LDS church president is...pathetic.
][/quote]

I would have agreed with you if I were there. I am a cub scout leader, I have nine 10 year olds. The all know about how primary elections work, at least 3 know what a caucus is. Only 2 or 3 know who the Utah governor, or Bill Clinton was. Still I was pretty impressed. FYI, it is in 5th grade here that they learn the government and political process here.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by cinnabon

I understand where you are sick of hearing people trash the Mormons, but this kind of ridiculous argument doesn't help your cause. It's complete BS, and here is why. Most areas have much more diversity, so no, there is no "lock stepping" into any particular view or ideology. Everyone is different, so differences are expected and accepted.

I don't usually use such terms, cinnabon, but your argument is hogwash. Yes, there is ethnic and religious diversity, but the political ideology is decidedly liberal, rigid, and narrow minded. This condition has spawned the term “politically correct.” It is difficult to impossible for me to picture a more diverse city than San Francisco; however, try being straight, male, a member of the NRA, or slightly conservative in San Francisco and you will quickly come to understand the term “PC.”.

[cinnabon]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

I don't usually use such terms, cinnabon, but your argument is hogwash. Yes, there is ethnic and religious diversity, but the political ideology is decidedly liberal, rigid, and narrow minded. This condition has spawned the term “politically correct.” It is difficult to impossible for me to picture a more diverse city than San Francisco; however, try being straight, male, a member of the NRA, or slightly conservative in San Francisco and you will quickly come to understand the term “PC.”.

Where are you even talking about where "political ideology is decidedly liberal, rigid, and narrow minded"? Are you implying that SF is representative of the entire country? I would imagine SF is more liberal overall than many places, with the large gay populations, etc., but until you have lived everywhere, how can you say that everywhere or even most places are politically rigid, in that those who do not go with the main flow are ostracized, as Blondie rabbit was implying?

In the NYC metro area it's not hogwash. I know just as many conservatives as liberals, even in this relatively liberal area. I have lived and spent time all over the Northeast for 45+ years and it's just not rigid and narrow minded politically. You know why it's different? Because people here do not concern themselves so much with other people's beliefs, whether religious, political or otherwise, because of the overall diversity. It would be pointless to do so, so the mindset here is different.

The point I was making is that Utah is unusual in it's lack of diversity. Before you tell me I should move somewhere else instead, let me just say that I'm OK with that. I anticipate that it will be an interesting change to live somewhere that is less of a melting pot. I'm not there yet, but right now I feel pretty neutral about the Mormon influence on the area. So what? Live and let live is my philosophy.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by cinnabon

Where are you even talking about where "political ideology is decidedly liberal, rigid, and narrow minded"? Are you implying that SF is representative of the entire country? I would imagine SF is more liberal overall than many places, with the large gay populations, etc., but until you have lived everywhere, how can you say that everywhere or even most places are politically rigid, in that those who do not go with the main flow are ostracized, as Blondie rabbit was implying?

In the NYC metro area it's not hogwash. I know just as many conservatives as liberals, even in this relatively liberal area. I have lived and spent time all over the Northeast for 45+ years and it's just not rigid and narrow minded politically. You know why it's different? Because people here do not concern themselves so much with other people's beliefs, whether religious, political or otherwise, because of the overall diversity. It would be pointless to do so, so the mindset here is different.

The point I was making is that Utah is unusual in it's lack of diversity. Before you tell me I should move somewhere else instead, let me just say that I'm OK with that. I anticipate that it will be an interesting change to live somewhere that is less of a melting pot. I'm not there yet, but right now I feel pretty neutral about the Mormon influence on the area. So what? Live and let live is my philosophy.

Originally Posted by cinnabon

Most areas have much more diversity, so no, there is no "lock stepping" into any particular view or ideology. Everyone is different, so differences are expected and accepted.

Allow me to refresh your memory. The above clearly indicates you are stating diversity prevents ideological lock stepping and differences are accepted. I have provided proof to the contrary. It does not matter whether my example is universal. It is only necessary to show there are exceptions to your premise to demonstrate the fallacy in your reasoning.