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I must chime in and say that Utah is without question the worst place I have ever visited or lived. The bottom line is I am not beautiful enough to live here. I feel so awful everywhere I go, especially anywhere in the suburbs, and am leaving in the spring even though I just got a job today. What I experience is the subtle discrimination that goes on from Mormons who clearly hate outsiders or anyone whose look is slightly off.
I just got back from Albuquerque
No one commented on anything I wore, there were no strange looks, no strange treatment. I'm not pretty enough for Albuquerque either, never was or probably will be, but at least there I was at peace about it.
You might be partially right, but maybe a tad oversensitive. The rule of thumb is that one should weigh the positives versus the negatives. If the positives exceed the negatives, you might want to stay. If the negatives exceed the positives, then move on. For me, the best place I've ever lived was Atlanta (mostly all positive and a few negatives). The worst place I've lived is Reno (mostly all negative and a few positives). And I'm a Westerner by birth and socialization. Chart your list of priorities.
Another comment about what is pretty or not pretty: first, it's in the eye of the beholder. We are generally tougher on ourselves than others are. One suggestion: perhaps you can look at 3 things that you can change that could bump you up into a "comfort zone." Sometimes, for a woman, a better hairstyle, different make up, different clothing and shedding a few pounds can inch you to where you feel better about yourself and get a better reception. My Dad used to cut my hair, even in early college. It looked like crap. I then went out and started paying for professional haircuts. On top of that, I worked to have my bad acne disappear completely and I also hit the gym. Those 3 things changed my situation drastically, but it took a while for me to adjust to a different reception. Consider what small changes you might make if this area bothers you. Heck, it's a NEW year. I wish you well.
I must chime in and say that Utah is without question the worst place I have ever visited or lived. The bottom line is I am not beautiful enough to live here. I feel so awful everywhere I go, especially anywhere in the suburbs, and am leaving in the spring even though I just got a job today. What I experience is the subtle discrimination that goes on from Mormons who clearly hate outsiders or anyone whose look is slightly off. I have had the same experiences for three years now at almost all the stores I regularly patronize (Wild Oats, Target, etc.) And what blows me away is most of the people who diss me in public are nothing special themselves. Many are good looking but most are average and plainly dressed, toting their requisite two or three children. The point is I STICK OUT. It's obvious to people I don't have children and am alone and I am convinced that this makes me a target. I just got back from Albuquerque where I spent the holidays where I noticed many people of different ethnicities and backgrounds everywhere I went. People were in their own worlds minding their own business. No one commented on anything I wore, there were no strange looks, no strange treatment. I'm not pretty enough for Albuquerque either, never was or probably will be, but at least there I was at peace about it.
I will try my best to be diplomatic in what I am about to write, but I believe it is important for you to read. I now live in Utah, but I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area until six months ago. I see no physical differences between the people in Utah and where I lived in California. My son lives in Idaho. All the folks I have seen in Idaho look no different from the people in Utah and California. I have been all over the world, and most people look pretty much the same.
Next, I am no movie star. I have some nice work related scars; one of which is on my face. I am no fancy dresser, and I go many places without my wife in tow, so for all intents and purposes, people would not know I was married. I see no one reacting to me in the manner you describe.
Although I think my wife is beautiful, I assure you she is no Marie Osmond. She is no fancy dresser either, and she too goes many places without the burden of dragging me around; therefore, people have no idea whether she’s married. My wife reports none of the problems you indicate.
Unless, you have a penchant for wearing Tee-shirts embroidered with expletives directed toward the LDS Church or the institution of marriage, it is impossible for me to visualize why anyone would be reacting to you in the manner you describe. Your self image is at work here, and you need to find some way of enhancing that image.
I don't think it's legal to ask personal questions, such as marital status in a job interview. I would question why they were asking, and explain that I didn't understand the relevance of the question. I suppose it might depend partially on what type of job you are after, as to whether you are likely to be discriminated against.
I am curious how it will be job hunting as a single, middle-aged, childless female, in the mental health field. People who work in this field tend to be liberal... Maybe it will help that I look "WASPy" enough that I won't stand out!
Actually an interviewer can ask any question. It is you that doesn't have to answer. Yes most times it is nothing more than small talk to see how do conversationally. After all the interview is to see if there is a fit for that company. Nothing worse than working at a place you will end up hating very fast.
As to the liberal end of mental health employee/employers, I can say without a doubt Utah is very much on the very liberal end. My aunt for too many years to count was head of the mental health departments for Utah. Her sister in law was head of the Democratic party for Utah. ( yep it was women in those positions as well) Between the two of them, they would make San Francisco look ultra conservative. I called my aunt when I read this, and she laughed. I can't repeat what she said, but leave it say, that it was male bovine in nature at it's nicest.
Catrinac, you have a very big ax to grind about Mormons. You live in a place that is 51% non Mormon, yet you say everyone that you come in contact with is. You have also claimed in a previous post to have wanted cosmetic surgery long before you came here. That makes me think you were not satisfied with your looks long before your Utah experience. If Albuequerque was so wonderful It would have been hard for me to look for another job and leave it. I myself wear a t-shirt that has a picture of a bull on the front with the word BULL SHIRT in big letters. If you read it fast you think the worst. I'm not attractive. Like Sargent I came from the San Francisco area. I was looked down upon for my look there where here, I find that I just one in the crowd of normal looking people who age. Maybe SLC has an obsession with cosmetic surgery, but So. Utah sure doesn't. The one office in St. Geroge splits it's time mostly with Las Vegas.
As usual this has turned into nothing more than a excuse to bash Mormons. It may have been worded as to not lead to that, but that is exactly what it has turned into. The OP of this thread if you read their previous posts is notrious for bashing Mormons. All the ills of Utah come down to Mormons are the bad people. Utah is no different where the old line culture is mostly of one religion. Try Ma. An not be catholic. Try the south abnd not be So. Baptist. Or you can change it to a place that has a predominance of one ethnic group over another. Not all, but a good portion of what is deemed discrimination if it were to be dissected would show it is not the place or people but an already ceeded feeling that just got projected onto the the new place. When moving you must be aware that it is a change. You must also be ready to addapt or accept what you won't addapt to. Millions of people are not going to change for a few. No matter how much you bash, accuse or belittle them. If you don't have to move to Utah, and you hate Mormons, then why come? I know it is a beautiful state, but other states nearby are just as gorgous and not offensive if you hate the culture here. I not saying don't come, but be aware that it is only going to increase your hatred to be around it day after day. Some on here have proven they refuse to accept what this place is. That hatred that was a spark has grown.
Actually an interviewer can ask any question. It is you that doesn't have to answer. Yes most times it is nothing more than small talk to see how do conversationally. After all the interview is to see if there is a fit for that company. Nothing worse than working at a place you will end up hating very fast.
And if you refuse to answer, you won't get the job. It actually is illegal to ask personal questions. See link for a list of them: Interview Subjects (http://www.doi.gov/hrm/pmanager/st13c4.html - broken link). There is a difference between making conversation and prying, and one's marital status would not seem to be an indicator as to whether someone is a good fit for a company. On the topic of marital status it says: "There is no legal question that can be asked regarding this subject."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondie-Rabbit
As to the liberal end of mental health employee/employers, I can say without a doubt Utah is very much on the very liberal end. My aunt for too many years to count was head of the mental health departments for Utah. Her sister in law was head of the Democratic party for Utah. ( yep it was women in those positions as well) Between the two of them, they would make San Francisco look ultra conservative. I called my aunt when I read this, and she laughed. I can't repeat what she said, but leave it say, that it was male bovine in nature at it's nicest.
I don't totally get what was funny, but in any case, glad to hear it. Like I said, I was not expecting to have a problem working in my field in the way someone in a more conservative business or sales person might.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondie-Rabbit
As usual this has turned into nothing more than a excuse to bash Mormons. It may have been worded as to not lead to that, but that is exactly what it has turned into. The OP of this thread if you read their previous posts is notrious for bashing Mormons. All the ills of Utah come down to Mormons are the bad people. Utah is no different where the old line culture is mostly of one religion. Try Ma. An not be catholic. Try the south abnd not be So. Baptist. Or you can change it to a place that has a predominance of one ethnic group over another. Not all, but a good portion of what is deemed discrimination if it were to be dissected would show it is not the place or people but an already ceeded feeling that just got projected onto the the new place. When moving you must be aware that it is a change. You must also be ready to addapt or accept what you won't addapt to. Millions of people are not going to change for a few. No matter how much you bash, accuse or belittle them. If you don't have to move to Utah, and you hate Mormons, then why come? I know it is a beautiful state, but other states nearby are just as gorgous and not offensive if you hate the culture here. I not saying don't come, but be aware that it is only going to increase your hatred to be around it day after day. Some on here have proven they refuse to accept what this place is. That hatred that was a spark has grown.
I really don't agree with this - and I don't hear "hate" in these posts (more like frustration). Granted some people here do have a big chip on their shoulder about the Mormons (Catrinac has already said she is leaving the area), but certainly not everyone. For every person in this forum who has bashed Mormons there is another who has said they felt welcomed and had no problems with them. Here's an example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolagranola
The people here are so friendly and welcoming, so willing to sign up as volunteers.
I love how family-oriented it is. If there is a school event, a scouting thing, kids sports, ect, everyone understands and expects you to make it a priority.
Also, for every post that talks about difficulties people have faced in the area, there is another post like yours getting very defensive. On both ends over generalizations are being made. It's not about Mormon bashing, it's about the experiences, both good and bad, mostly of non Mormons who have relocated to the area.
Catrina, this is off topic from the thread, but I really feel, from your posts, that you have a serious self esteem problem. You can blame it on Mormons, or Utah, or plastic surgery, or employers, or whatever you choose, but at the root of it is a very low self image. I would be willing to bet that you aren't really unattractive, but if you feel unattractive, then the reality doesn't matter. I don't want you to take this wrong, and I am not being snarky at all, I'm being very honest and very serious. I think you could really benefit from some counseling. You need someone to help you see the good in yourself. Underneath the mean posts I sense a very vulnerable and hurt person. And the damage is coming from within. I hope you are able to overcome that.
catrinac:
Ok I have to chime in on this.
Unattractive people are treated different by society! I also have noticed that mormons seem to be one of the worse about this.
I would not be considered unattractive and have experienced being treated by women crappy because of my looks as well.
I have observed and know people who are treated badly because of how they look especially if they are over weight.
Thank you cinnabon for the link for interview subjects. My hubby is a mgr and I know about the questions that can be asked and not.
I agree but also I would like to point out that I find that the Customer Service in St. George, Utah is not as professional as other states I have lived and visted. It really surprises me since St. George caters to tourist. I don't understand why certain places, especially certain medical facilities and major stores hire rude, inexperienced personnel to assist in customer service. Oh yeah, another place where there is terrible customer service is the Utility dept and the phone company. Is it so hard to smile and say good morning, afternoon or a simply "how are you?"
Also, why do you have to stand in front of the counter for several minutes before your acknowledged? I have brought up certain issues to the supervisors or manager and notice that the person is still working there with the same poor customer service attitude. We moved from a very big city and there is also bad customer service, but I do understand that in a Big City you have to deal with all sorts of different races and levels of education and languages...but not in St. George for goodness sakes!
In the beginning when I started this post, it was not to bash the Mormons. It was to meet new transplants. I'm happy that this post has turned out to be pretty sucessful and still going. However, I also mentioned the same problem in this forum about the questions that were being asked during a job interview and that I had noticed for over a year now, and that I felt a sense of discrimation when applying for a job....But I Was Deleted So Many Times, that I Just Decided it Was Not Worth making any Statements!
So, after being gone for a while I have something else to say...Why are the wages so low here but the cost of living is high? Why is it that more and more people have 2 jobs in order to make it? The rent is as high as in Los Angeles but Los Angeles pays much higher wages. I don't understand how a large LDS family of 4 or 6 kids make it here? And let's leave out the professional, like doctors, lawyers and those who come from money. I'm talking about the normal middle class society...if there is any around? At least in the Big Cities regardless how you look, you get hired and treated equally...that's the Labor Law in CA, NY and other states. Why isn't that followed here in Utah?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn
catrinac:
Ok I have to chime in on this.
Unattractive people are treated different by society! I also have noticed that mormons seem to be one of the worse about this.
I would not be considered unattractive and have experienced being treated by women crappy because of my looks as well.
I have observed and know people who are treated badly because of how they look especially if they are over weight.
Thank you cinnabon for the link for interview subjects. My hubby is a mgr and I know about the questions that can be asked and not.
I agree but also I would like to point out that I find that the Customer Service in St. George, Utah is not as professional as other states I have lived and visted. It really surprises me since St. George caters to tourist. I don't understand why certain places, especially certain medical facilities and major stores hire rude, inexperienced personnel to assist in customer service. Oh yeah, another place where there is terrible customer service is the Utility dept and the phone company. Is it so hard to smile and say good morning, afternoon or a simply "how are you?"
Also, why do you have to stand in front of the counter for several minutes before your acknowledged? I have brought up certain issues to the supervisors or manager and notice that the person is still working there with the same poor customer service attitude. We moved from a very big city and there is also bad customer service, but I do understand that in a Big City you have to deal with all sorts of different races and levels of education and languages...but not in St. George for goodness sakes!
In the beginning when I started this post, it was not to bash the Mormons. It was to meet new transplants. I'm happy that this post has turned out to be pretty successful and still going. However, I had also mentioned the same problem in this forum about the questions that were being asked during a job interview and that I had noticed for over a year now, and that I felt a sense of discrimation when applying for a job....But I Was Deleted So Many Times, that I Just Decided it Was Not Worth making any Statements!
So, after being gone for a while I have something else to say...Why are the wages so low here but the cost of living is high? Why is it that more and more people have 2 jobs in order to make it? The rent is as high as in Los Angeles but Los Angeles pays much higher wages. I don't understand how a large LDS family of 4 or 6 kids make it here? And let's leave out the professional, like doctors, lawyers and those who come from money. I'm talking about the normal middle class society...if there is any around? At least in the Big Cities regardless how you look, you get hired and treated equally...that's the Labor Law in CA, NY and other states. Why isn't that followed here in Utah?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn
catrinac:
Ok I have to chime in on this.
Unattractive people are treated different by society! I also have noticed that mormons seem to be one of the worse about this.
I would not be considered unattractive and have experienced being treated by women crappy because of my looks as well.
I have observed and know people who are treated badly because of how they look especially if they are over weight.
Thank you cinnabon for the link for interview subjects. My hubby is a mgr and I know about the questions that can be asked and not.
I've read quite a few referances to the lack of quality customer service all over Utah. I noticed it soon after moving here. Over time I've resigned myself to get used to it because of what I figure are the reasons for it. One, because the minimum wage for food servers in Utah is $2.18/hr, Two, the state adopts the federal minimum wage for all other jobs and Three, because there is a sizable hunk of the native population that were raised in a very structured and resticted environment and simply never learned how to effectively intereact with people they didn't know.
So, after being gone for a while I have something else to say...Why are the wages so low here but the cost of living is high? Why is it that more and more people have 2 jobs in order to make it? The rent is as high as in Los Angeles but Los Angeles pays much higher wages. I don't understand how a large LDS family of 4 or 6 kids make it here? And let's leave out the professional, like doctors, lawyers and those who come from money. I'm talking about the normal middle class society...if there is any around? At least in the Big Cities regardless how you look, you get hired and treated equally...that's the Labor Law in CA, NY and other states. Why isn't that followed here in Utah?
I think the issue with the wage to cost of living is relatively new in the state. As recently as 4 years ago Utah had one of the lowest costs of living in the country. Our economy is getting ready to crash due to an inbred political system in the state. We also have a large LDS majority that have been raised to not question anything that may garner a negative response.
Until Utah educates their public with unbiased programs on politics and economics things will continue to get worse in that regard. I had a birthday party of 11 year olds at my house the other day 2 out of 15 of them knew who the current president of the united states is. 9 of 15 knew who the current LDS church president is...pathetic.
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Customer Service in St. George, UT
I agree but also I would like to point out that I find that the Customer Service in St. George, Utah is not as professional as other states I have lived and visted. It really surprises me since St. George caters to tourist. I don't understand why certain places, especially certain medical facilities and major stores hire rude, inexperienced personnel to assist in customer service. Oh yeah, another place where there is terrible customer service is the Utility dept and the phone company. Is it so hard to smile and say good morning, afternoon or a simply "how are you?" 
