The Lowdown on us Mormons (Part 2) (Salt Lake City: living in, shop, statistics)

[pikabike]

When I saw Hole-in-the-Rock, I could not help but be awed by the persistence and dedication to a goal that the pioneering Mormons revealed.

Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with other aspects of Mormonism, nobody could ever call them lazy or undisciplined.

I sometimes get sideways glances and questions for turning down drinks. Maybe some people think I am or was an alcoholic, neither of which is the case. At those times I am tempted to say my religion doesn't permit alcohol. But that would be lying. Frankly, it would be really nice to live among people who don't view alcohol as a positive thing.

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

Originally Posted by pikabike

..................... Frankly, it would be really nice to live among people who don't view alcohol as a positive thing.

I agree. I had to quit drinking many years ago when I developed diabetes. Try being a vegetarian! Almost no one understands why I don't eat meat and I don't want to get into details b/c it will spoil an encounter quicker than anything; I tell them to google slaughterhouses.

[IheartWA]

I always thought of Utah as "belonging" to the Mormons. You settled there, populated it, so if you want laws built around your religious precepts then fine. Cool.
My concern, if I were contemplating moving to Utah would be the ability to do business and normal activities without being non-LDS an issue. I'm fine with your laws, I'm fine with your culture, I'll show kindness to your missionaries, I'll dress appropriately and use my "temple voice" around your temples, I just don't want to be one of you.

I will say this, you certainly picked the most beautiful state to call "yours!"

Peace.

[stephwin]

What do Mormons believe about birth control? I'm Catholic and we obviously believe birth control of any kind is a no-no, and therefore, Catholics are kind of stereotyped as having large families. The few Mormon familiars I've "known" (not all that well) have had large families, like 5+ kids. Or is it that Mormons are encouraged to have large families in general?

Also, what do Mormons believe about fertility treatments, like IVF? Is any type of fertility treatment allowed or permitted?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by stephwin

What do Mormons believe about birth control? I'm Catholic and we obviously believe birth control of any kind is a no-no, and therefore, Catholics are kind of stereotyped as having large families. The few Mormon familiars I've "known" (not all that well) have had large families, like 5+ kids. Or is it that Mormons are encouraged to have large families in general?

The Church has never put out an official statement regarding birth control, but a great many Mormons do seem to feel some kind of an obligation to have as many children as they can care for. Without getting into a deep doctrinal discussion, I'll just explain this by saying that we believe the spirits of all human beings exist in Heaven with God prior to their birth and are anxiously awaiting their birth here on earth. They also believe that family relationships are intended by God to be eternal in nature. For these reasons, many Mormon couples see having a large posterity as something they are just "supposed to" do. It's more of a cultural thing than an actual doctrinal thing, though.

My husband and I only had two children ourselves, and practiced birth control for the first eight years of our marriage. No one in any kind of an official position of authority ever said a word about our choice to us, but we did encounter a few judgmental people over the years -- my sister-in-law, in particular. She called my husband one morning out of the blue and read him the riot act over our supposed intentions to thwart God's plan. "God told Adam and Eve to multiply and replenish the earth," she said, and you're not doing your part. I was livid! When I told my parents about her comments, my Dad answered, "Yeah, that's what God told Adam and Eve all right. He also told Noah to build an ark. The next time she gets on your case about postponing your family, ask her how she's coming on her ark."

Also, what do Mormons believe about fertility treatments, like IVF? Is any type of fertility treatment allowed or permitted?

Pretty much any medically safe fertility treatment is allowed, as far as I know.

[Fabio Martinez]

Respectfully, I would like to ask something maybe complex

Is it possible have a relationship (short and long with marriage) between a mormon and non-mormon, like a Catholic i.e?
Do you believe that is possible have love in this case?

Thank you!

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Fabio Martinez

Respectfully, I would like to ask something maybe complex

Is it possible have a relationship (short and long with marriage) between a mormon and non-mormon, like a Catholic i.e?
Do you believe that is possible have love in this case?

Thank you!

Absolutely. While the Church does not encourage interfaith marriages, it is possible for these to work. I know of two devout Mormon men who are married to non-Mormon women. One of their wives is a practicing Lutheran and the other is a practicing Catholic. Both couples have been together for a long time and appear to be as happy as any LDS couples I know. The LDS-Catholic couple have two grown children. The son chose to be a Mormon and the daughter chose to be a Catholic. Both parents respected their decisions and their relationships have not suffered.

[kaytidid]

Originally Posted by Fabio Martinez

Respectfully, I would like to ask something maybe complex

Is it possible have a relationship (short and long with marriage) between a mormon and non-mormon, like a Catholic i.e?
Do you believe that is possible have love in this case?

Thank you!

Of course. I was raised Catholic and both my sisters married men who were brought up LDS. One no longer practices and the other does. The one that married the practicing LDS, has since converted herself (of her choice, she wasn't pressured into it).

[markg91359]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

The Church has never put out an official statement regarding birth control, but a great many Mormons do seem to feel some kind of an obligation to have as many children as they can care for. Without getting into a deep doctrinal discussion, I'll just explain this by saying that we believe the spirits of all human beings exist in Heaven with God prior to their birth and are anxiously awaiting their birth here on earth. They also believe that family relationships are intended by God to be eternal in nature. For these reasons, many Mormon couples see having a large posterity as something they are just "supposed to" do. It's more of a cultural thing than an actual doctrinal thing, though.

My husband and I only had two children ourselves, and practiced birth control for the first eight years of our marriage. No one in any kind of an official position of authority ever said a word about our choice to us, but we did encounter a few judgmental people over the years -- my sister-in-law, in particular. She called my husband one morning out of the blue and read him the riot act over our supposed intentions to thwart God's plan. "God told Adam and Eve to multiply and replenish the earth," she said, and you're not doing your part. I was livid! When I told my parents about her comments, my Dad answered, "Yeah, that's what God told Adam and Eve all right. He also told Noah to build an ark. The next time she gets on your case about postponing your family, ask her how she's coming on her ark."

Pretty much any medically safe fertility treatment is allowed, as far as I know.

I've heard various pronouncements over the years.

I think there are some deep reasons why some church leaders placed such an emphasis on members having large families. It is not unique to Mormonism either. You could find similar ideas in other conservative religions. The reasons go something like this:

1. In the beginning, when the Mormons came to Utah they felt very threatened. This wasn't just paranoia. The Army marched on Utah in 1857 in the now forgotten "Mormon War" which came about the time of the Mountain Meadows Massacre. I think there was at least an implicit feeling that there was "safety in numbers". Population size was important to establishing God's Kingdom in Zion. These beliefs were there in the beginning and have continued until modern times.

2. People who have large families are preoccupied with raising them. They are unlikely to "stray from the fold" and question their faith very much.

3. Out of necessity, the large family tends to reinforce traditional values. Mom generally has to be at home full time raising kids. Dad has to be out in the workforce working 40+ hours a week to provide for the family.

4. Going to church costs nothing--unless you count tithing. Its an activity that people of modest means with large families tend to engage in because its for free and there is a positive message there on Sunday. Large families guarantee a higher level of church attendance.

I think this is an issue the Church is going to have to confront more and more. Mormons still have a higher birth rate than average in the USA. However, its down from where it used to be. We see families of three children now instead of families of five and six when I grew up. Church leaders are seeing members behave more and more like the rest of the people in the country. I don't think a lot of them like it. However, they can't do much about it.

[Geo-Aggie]

Originally Posted by Fabio Martinez

Respectfully, I would like to ask something maybe complex

Is it possible have a relationship (short and long with marriage) between a mormon and non-mormon, like a Catholic i.e?
Do you believe that is possible have love in this case?

Thank you!

Technically, yes. There's nothing stopping anyone from doing anything they wish, but realistically and culturally this only happens in special cases and requires an open minded Mormon.

Many faithful Mormons will not remain in a long-term relationship with someone else who is not of their same faith, due to certain beliefs they holdwhich essentially require ceremonies only available to Mormons, in order to achieve life goals (and afterlife goals) - but some more liberal Mormons take the literal teachings lightly and will date or even marry outside of their faith. I would estimate these instances to be rare, but they happen.

Much more common are the stories you hear about one partner leaving the faith and the still-faithful partner being pressured to leave the non-believer, or alternately the still-faithful partner getting sick of the pressure to leave their partner and leaving the church instead, due to the harmful peer pressure (this was the case in my personal life, as after I left Mormonism my wife was pressured by family and friends to leave me - despite our otherwise wonderful marriage. She decided a culture which creates harmful family values was not for her and now we both happily live a Post-Mormon life.)