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EDIT: By the way - the only people I know of who home-schooled in Utah did so because they were uber-Mormon. Like, to the point where other Mormons even thought they were extreme. We're talking bible studies as history class and sometimes science class, etc. They only stopped home-schooling when a private school opened up that basically taught their kids in the same uber-religious way they did at home. My point being, that home-schooling your child probably isolated you even further. At least at school, your kid would more easily make friends, and you could then talk to other parents. In home school, I'm thinking the religious disparity (you not being Mormon) will be more pronounced than it would be at a public school, at least in terms of joining home-schooling groups.
I guess I'll never quite figure it out, and don't plan to stick around to try. I've tried. I'm not a quitter, but I quit on Utah. They can have it. They won. Anyway, I truly appreciate both of you -- your kind words and honestly... you've given me a bit of sunshine in an otherwise smoggy day! Thank you, and I wish you both the very best. MisfitBanana, I hope you find a friendlier place too! I should have never left Texas....
I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. Different strokes for different folks I guess. In all honesty, I never cease to be amazed by the disparity in people's experiences here in the Salt Lake City area. There are people who move here from out of state and end up absolutely hating every minute of it, as well as those who move in, instantly fall in love with the area and wouldn't want to leave for anything. I'm not saying either group is lying about their experiences. It does make me wonder, though, how two such opposite points of view about one city can both be typical.
Kletter1mann, I'm going to respond to both of your posts at once. I've got to tell you that as a Mormon and a native of Utah (Salt Lake City, actually), some of the things you've said are really, really troubling to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kletter1mann
Not just your street. Same in my neighborhood. Pretty much the same everywhere I've bothered to notice. From my LR most neighbors front windows are mostly blocked by trees, but those that are visible ALWAYS the blinds drawn. Actually they all do, some just can't be seen well. In fact, the house directly across the street has been vacant for 3 years, and the owner still keeps the blinds drawn (owner's parents died and he keeps it up beautifully but is too blocked to clear out and sell). The only exceptions I've seen are my neighbors on either side, and they're all non-LDS out of state transplants too. Anyway, take a look through the houses in real estate sites. An amazing number of those houses are photographed with blinds down as well. Kinda makes you wonder what they're doing in there.
My mother (who died at age 96, nearly 8 years ago) always had the curtains in our house closed. It used to bug me, because I just love natural light, and I want my house to be as full of it as possible. By the time I got to be a teenager, and started to notice this habit of hers, I'd go into the living room each morning and open them. A while later, I'd see that they were closed again. Her explanation was that she didn't want people looking in. I don't know what she was afraid they'd see, but I'm sure it wasn't a murder or an orgy. My mother was hardly anti-social. She was friendly to everybody and I don't think she had an enemy in the world. She simply wanted her privacy when she was in her own home.
Right after I read your posts, I decided to take an inventory of my neighborhood's blind-shutting preferences. I took a walk, pad of paper in hand, up one side of the street and back down the other, just to check things out. It turns out that of the twelve families on the street, exactly six had their blinds open and six had them shut. (Ours, of course, were open.) Incidentally, I've lived in my house for 35 years now, and this is the first time I've even noticed whose blinds were open and whose were shut. Now that I know, I'm sure I will never give it another thought. It's actually pretty hard to see very clearly into a house from the street in the daytime hours, even if the blinds are wide open. Maybe when people just look straight ahead, they're just in their own world, thinking their own thoughts, and aren't interested in straining to see what's going on in their neighbors' homes. Maybe the folks with the drawn blinds simply prefer it that way, just like my mom used to. I'm sorry, but that's got to be one of the oddest observations I've ever heard about people here in Salt Lake City, and one of the silliest.
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Despite this, Utah works great for me. We came from an area with huge lots, total privacy and stratospheric taxes. We still enjoy our privacy despite the postage stamp lots of suburbia. Except for 1 family of jerks, my other neighbors are all terrific. And, because of personal interests it has been very easy to cultivate a great circle of friends -- who are ALL transplants. We knew it would be that way going in, retired with no kids to worry about. That said, I'd never move here in a million years if I had kids.
Okay, this is the paragraph that actually prompted me to respond. I'm glad Utah works great for you, but I'm afraid I'm kind of confused. I gather that you like the fact that your taxes are not as high as in New York, and that we have some pretty great skiing, but most of your comments are actually very negative. You say you like your privacy and yet you're really quite bothered by the fact that your neighbors keep their blinds drawn, apparently because they like theirs, too. You say that, aside from one family of jerks (there's always one, isn't there, no matter where you go?), all of your neighbors are terrific. Are any of them LDS? Are any of them native to this area? Or all they all non-LDS transplants? And about moving here with kids... That statement may end up being the deciding factor in whether a non-LDS family with kids ends up accepting or rejecting a job offer here in Salt Lake City. That's really unfortunate. You've been here just a little over a year, if I'm not mistaken. You have lived in only one neighborhood and have no children yourself. My guess is that of your "great circle of friends, all transplants," few to none have small children. I really don't think you're in a particularly good position to be making a statement that's going to discourage so many people from moving here. When a non-LDS family moved in to the house just across our back fence a few years ago, I wondered how their little boy, an only child, was going to be able to adjust. That little boy is going to be starting middle school in the fall. There is hardly a moment in the day when their backyard is not filled with his friends. He evidently hasn't suffered all that greatly.
I grew up in Salt Lake City in the 1950s and 60s. Back then, there was a considerably higher ratio of Mormons to non-Mormons than there is today. In elementary and junior high school, the group of about 12-15 kids I hung out with was about two-thirds Mormon. Nobody gave a second thought to who was and who wasn't, and nobody's parents cared either. When my kids, who grew up in the 1980s and 90s, were young, they had friends of all different religions and ethnicities. As a young adulat, my son was seriously involved for over five years with a young Hindu woman from Toronto, Canada. We were all crazy about her and from what he tells us, she liked us a lot! My sister and her husband (both raised LDS but now no longer religious) adopted a black child who fits perfectly in our family. We're all really, really close. Are we just anomalies?
Quote:
So, sorry it doesn't work for you. As I've posted elsewhere, culturally it's like moving to a foreign country. But it's a disorienting foreign country because the people still speak english, use the same $$, have the same stores and TV etc. So it's natural to expect cultural commonalities. When you're hammered by the differences it's very disorienting. I lived in Switzerland for years and your reaction is exactly the same as many American expats, especially those living farther out from the city in an attempt to replicate their American suburban lifestyle (not saying you're doing that, just describing similarities of the situation). A very similar dynamic.
I'm sorry, but this seems grossly exaggerated to me. No, I have not lived outside of Utah, but I love to go out to dinner, to sporting events, plays, concerts, arts fairs, and farmers' markets. I shop at the same stores as you do, and go to the same doctors' offices. I see hundreds of people at all of these places and I have no idea who's LDS and who's not, who's a transplant to Utah and who grew up here. Nobody sticks out like a sore thumb. You say moving to Utah is "like moving to a foreign country" and that you are "hammered by the differences" between. Yes, I know that it bugs you that people keep their blinds shut and that you can't find the kind of potato salad you like, but seriously? Are these the kinds of differences are you're actually bothered by? Are these the kinds of differences would you think people ought to be forewarned about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kletter1mann
This is all fascinating and illustrative. It all strongly reinforces my thesis that in Utah there really is a pervasive culture of exclusion, insularity and if-I don't-already-know-you-then-I-don't-need-to-know-you. The unfortunate corollary is that if-I-don't-NEED-to-know-you-then-I-don't-NEED-to-be-polite-to-you.
When you take a step back I think it's actually very damning of local Mormon culture. Here's the elephant in the room that everybody dances around: the culture says that it's ok to be unfriendly and even uncivil to people outside your group. There's one standard of interpersonal interaction for your group and another for everybody else. Elsewhere in the US this is generally not the norm. The closest analog I can think of is places with locally embedded where whites don't feel any need to be civil to blacks or Mexicans. The social dynamic is actually the same IMO and is called racism when it's about ethnicity: the in-group feels that it's OK to treat the out-group differently.
As a lifelong Salt Laker and a lifelong Mormon (soon to be 69 years old) I find this really, really hurtful. First of all, how do you really know if the people who are being unfriendly or uncivil to you are even LDS? Do you just make the assumption? "Boy, he was sure a jerk. Must be Mormon." "She didn't make eye-contact with me. Clearly LDS."
Last night, my husband and I hosted -- for the third year in a row -- a backyard barbeque at our house. We invited everybody on the street. We knew that one family wouldn't be there. They totally keep to themselves and want nothing to do with their neighbors. (Incidentally, they are native Salt Lakers, ex-Mormons, and keep their blinds open during the daytime hours.) Everyone else who was not out of town was there. The man next door was on a fishing trip with a friend. His wife came alone. One couple had a previous engagement, but they made it a point to come as soon as they finished up with their earlier plans. One woman, divorced, was in Los Angeles visiting a friend. She has come both of the prior two years and I'm sure she'd have come had she been in town. There was one widow and one widower. In all, there were sixteen of us. Four of the families are LDS. Eight are not. The woman who was in L.A. and had to miss the party this year is Muslim. She's from Iran. Our next door neighbor is Jewish and is from back East. A few were Catholic, and I have no idea about the rest. In addition to Caucasians, there were Hispanics and Asians. The group ranged in age from 25 to 90. A few took us up on the suggestion that if they didn't want the diet sodas and bottled water we provided, they BYOB. Everybody had a wonderful time, and we got thanked over and over again for hosting the event every year. (We just grill hamburgers; otherwise it's just potluck.) You would not have known that their were any age, cultural or religious differences between any of our guests.
I'm sorry, but I'm just confused. Are my husband and I unique among LDS, native Salt Lakers? I just don't get it.
I just found this thread. I would never try to invalidate or minimize your experiences, and clearly it's been miserable for you. But there are lots of ways to make it better before you go to the extreme of leaving.
I moved to Utah with my spouse for a job in 1986. We were a non-LDS couple with 2 kids. Our plan was to try it for 3 years. Now Utah has been home base for 31 years. In general, I find that whenever I move, it takes a year or more to settle in. Maybe it's a bit early to declare failure. In my experience, there were three good ways that we developed strong ties to the community - our kids, our coworkers, and the Lutheran church that we joined.
So these are the questions that come to my mind: Is it just the neighborhood? What part of Ogden are you living in? Does it make sense to try a different neighborhood or part of town? You mentioned moving for a government job. Do you get along with your coworkers? Have you shared your experiences with them? What do they say? You also mentioned that you home-schooled your kids in California and I guess you're home-schooling here. I'm wondering if it might be worth sending the kids to a neighborhood school in the fall to see if that helps break the ice? I've always found that kids are a terrific common denominator among young families, and its easy to bond with other parents over shared children's activities.
Hang in there and keep your chin up. Things have a way of working out no matter what you decide to do or where you settle.
I was a bit concerned about ruffling somebody's feathers but thought that the issue merits an open and probably uncomfortable debate. You raise a lot of legitimate questions and issues. I can well see how I'd come off as a Utah-hater and I understand much of your dismay. So, let me take stab at it and try to make it as clear as possible. You may not agree with me but your experiences and perspectives are certainly as valid as mine, which I respect.
A couple things from the get-go.:
I've specifically refrained from commenting on schools, education and kid's issues. Iit's outside my experience and I've got little to contribute. That said, and based largely on what I've learned here, I wouldn't move here if I had kids. There are just too many potential issues that could be avoided by being elsewhere. More on that below.
I've certainly have commented on food questions and petty annoyances. Please don't over-read as general Utah-hate. Every single local city-data forum is replete with people gripping about the stuff they can't find back home.
I'm fear that I do come off here as being anti-LDS. That's most emphatically not the case. Some of the best human beings I've encountered were LDS and I employed a couple LDS kids in NY. They were the best employees I had. I know little about the religious doctrine and it's not of interest to me. But I very much am opposed to insularity, provincialism, racism, sexism and (for lack of a better term) social mistreatment of the "other."
Because of #3 above I've tried to be very careful to couch my arguments in terms of a particular (and peculiar) element of Utah culture, not religion per se. That's because I truly don't believe that this topic stems direcly from religion or some particular LDS doctrine. Quite the contrary in fact. I do, however, believe it stems from a specific subset of people living here with certain cultural practices who also happen also to be LDS. Maybe it's a holdover from the pioneer days and times of persecution and flight. I don't know, but what can be observed are the cultural practices and behaviors. Let me clarify further with an analogy. Both France and Ireland are Roman Catholic. Same religion, same doctrine. But Irish and French cultural practices couldn't be more different. Seems to me that it's the "Utah LDS" and "non-Utah LDS" distinction is quite similar - it's not about the religion, it;s about the culture.
Because I make an observation that doesn't mean it's a criticism. I really do think there's tendency here (on this board, but also in UT) to over interpret comments and observations as criticism. Maybe that explains the constant apologies from people here for stuff that would go unremarked elsewhere? (Many visitors have asked me "What's up with all the apologies?")
OK, on the other stuff:
Blinds: First, your mother's story struck a funny chord. My mother-in-law had the same thing about keeping the blinds down. She was from Massachusetts and had lovely view of a yard with total privacy. She still kept them down all the time and it drove us all nuts. So, I know full well there are people that like the curtains drawn. That said, I'll point out that it was the OP first mentioned the blinds! I was responding to that because clearly we've made a similar observation. That's 2 data points so we win . Nothing is universal, so I'm not surprised that you'd find a different result in your neighborhood. But if you lived here you'd see what I see and your survey doesn't invalidate our observations or vice versa. Sorry it apparently pushed a button but it's a trivial point in the larger scheme of things so maybe we can leave it at that.
Negativity: Sorry, but you're really reading way to much into it. Case in point, back to the blinds. It's an observation, and one made by the OP! I couldn't care less, it doesn't bother me at all. And to beat a dead horse, my potato salad post started along the lines of "I can't find it, does it exist here?" For that I basically got beaten up for being too lazy to make it or being whiner.
Neighbors: First, I'm neither a booster or denegrator of SLC or Utah. I'm just calling like I see it. If a comment turns someone away, so what? Maybe it was doing them a favor. If the OP could have read this thread beforehand it might have turned her away, and it seems she'd have been better for it. Anyway, back to the neighbors. Again, it isn't about being LDS! You're clearly quite sensitized on the LDS theme. 2 neighbors are indeed non-LDS transplants. The rest (about 4 that I see regularly) are LDS. That includes the jerks, who have small kids. They honk car horns at night to get people out of the house and are generally unneighborly. The other 3 LDS'ers are all perfect neighbors IMO. We say hi, help each other out and make a point of watching out for each other. One of them has a huge extended family, lots of kids, cars and activity. They make things lively in a good way. incidently, all 3 think the jerks are jerks too. Again, nothing to do with LDS.
Kids: Again, I'm not booster or denegrator of SLC. I'm just calling like I see it. If a comment turns someone away, so what? Isn't the point of these forums to inform? I don't know why the comments of a retiree would be taken more seriously than the dozens of posts by parents of school age kids. And I actually do have a number of friends with school age kids. All have various reservations with the schools. So, that said, I stand by my position. We all know about class size and spending rates. I've never heard anything indicating that Utah schools are "aspirational." They overwhelmingly feed The U and other local colleges. For many parents, especially those from the coasts, this would be huge deal. And that's a fact. Finally, there's the recurring theme of "my kids were shunned because we have a coffee maker" and similar stories. Well, you can talk all day long about how your non-LDS neighbors kids have tons of friends over, or you were exposed to non-LDS people from other walks of life or religions. That's great, but it's your experience. But it would be huge mistake for anybody else to generalize from it, especially when this board is studded with posts from people who left specifically because they hoped for your experience but ended up with exactly the opposite. IMO it's letting boosterism sugar coat a very real issue. So yes, perhaps as a lifetime Utahn you are an anomaly (but a good one I'd say!).
The foreign country metaphor: Having lived for extended periods in 2 foreign countries I stand by my metaphor. Admittedly, it's strong but it's still apt, so work with me. It's not about how anybody looks and (AGAIN!!!!!) it's not about who's LDS and who isn't or where they came from. Really, I feel you seem to work at misreading me cause your drawn back to the LDS thing! It's about the culture, a real and serious issue. It's NOT about blinds or potato salad. Those are utterly trivial. The culture thing, again, is not a complaint. I knew the culture before I moved. But sweeping it under the carpet doesn't do anybody any good. If you were moving from here to LA or NY wouldn't you want to know about the respective cultures there? The problem so many have with moving within the US is that people don't recognize that the US is comprised of many different cultures as different as Sweden is from Italy or Israel. There's common language, TV, etc. But the differences between regions is still vast, as anybody moving from Texas to NY (or vice versa) knows.
Mormon culture: I'm truly sorry you find this hurtful, that's not the intent at all and for that I apologize. Nevertheless, I think it's a legitimate question. And it can't be sidestepped by your own personal diverse and open-minded experiences and lifestyle. Please do reread. I was very specific to say LOCAL Mormon culture. Well, you're local, so I guess that includes you so I should have been more specific. What I meant was the specific local Utah LDS culture that tolerates the kind of in group-vs-out group social behaviors that the OP and many others have repeatedly described here. The hard thing with such stuff is this: people in culture X can have a very hard time seeing it for what it is. It's their normal, like air. Going or living someplace else is always a shock - maybe good and exciting, maybe bad (their food sucks, everybody is rude, etc). I noticed that you didn't comment on the eyes-forward or general unfriendliness comments. Maybe you disagree but don't want to seem disagreeable. But on some level I'm quite certain that you just don't see it the way a newcomer does. And that's because it's such a familiar part of the local culture. But to be 100000% clear, I don't make any LDS assumption about that at all. In fact, I'm sure there are lots of non-LDS people that behave the same because that's an element of their local culture too cause they've been immersed in it their whole lives.
OK, back to the Church's role. It's like the French/Irish thing to me - one religion, 2 cultures. I don't believe for a second that the LDS church itself would sanction or condone incivility, rudeness or antisocial behavior. But there does seem to be a very real dissonance going on. There's no question that there is a recurring issue here of strangers being ignored, feeling snubbed or whatever. You had a story about moving from your neighborhood in SLC for that reason. Misfitbanana had similar tale about her new ward and what shock it was coming here. There's a real issue going on here, and it keeps repeating. The conclusion is very very obvious: for many here there are 2 very different standards of social behavior. One is the social interaction with strangers (out-group) and the other is the social interaction with their in-group (maybe their ward?). Since the majority here is LDS, and was much more so in the past, it follows that on some level the local church thinks that behavior is OK or, quite possibly, is simply blind to it cause that's normal pattern of social interaction in the local culture. But make no mistake, the underlying psychology stems from an in-group/out-group, tribal mindset. And that's absolutely the same force at work behind sexism, racism and other -isims. I actually think this would be a fascinating topic for somebody here to raise at their local church. Would it be accepted as an issue worthy of discussion? Would it be socially unacceptable to even raise the topic? Is there even any venue where it would be possible to do so? I'd be very interested in knowing.
In closing, this is bigger than what you do at your block party. You're certainly not unique among LDS. Sounds to me you're exactly like the non-Utah LDS that are shocked when they encounter Utah LDS. Sorry you were offended &/or confused, but hope this has clarified more. Best wishes,
Ogden here. It's a good little city. It is surrounded by huge mountains, great trails and canyons. I don't know any statistics but I will say, coming from L.A. or Chicago to live in Ogden will be completely different in a good way.
Yes you will get a ticket if you don't clear the sidewalk within, I think, 24 hrs of a storm.
I know I am horribly late with this comment but I have to say it. That is enough to start me packing for Ogden this minute. I have never yet lived in any city that enforced its "clear sidewalk" laws. What usually happens is the street-clearing crews pile the snow onto the sidewalks. If your city actually enforces clean sidewalks and penalizes failure to do so, count your blessings.
...Do we like Ogden? No. Do we plan to leave as soon as we are able? Yes. We're not Mormon, and I know that a lot of people have their views on the Mormon culture. I really think it depends on where you live, literally, from street to street, ward to ward. In my area, there are nothing but 1950's homes with some of the original owners, and their kids have apparently bought homes on the same street. We thought someone would stop by and say "hello" and "welcome to the neighborhood"... nothing. No one has even invited us to church. No one waves. They literally look at you and don't even smile. We were driving down our street, and there was a group of men standing in a group talking, we were going really slow since there were kids playing and we were getting ready to pull into our driveway. They looked up and I gave them a big friendly smile and waved... if looks could kill, we'd be dead. I know they saw me because they were close enough that they could have reached out and touched our truck. My stomach did a flip-flop... I had never experienced anything like that. They just stared and frowned, watching us go by. We felt shocked and really bummed out. My little boy said, "Mommy, they seemed kind of mad. Were they mad at us?"...
I believe this is a very realistic perspective that many, many people not from Utah or the Mormon culture experience when they relocate there. I wish more were aware of this. In the ExMormon world we use the term "Leadership Roulette" to define how one bishop will be like, "Ah, you drink coffee? Whatever. Just work on it and don't get addicted." to one in the same neighborhood who is like, "You drink coffee?!?! No endorsement/recommend for you!"
And the same thing applies to neighborhoods, which is how you can have those who state, "Oh yeah, I moved to ____ as a non-member and was totally accepted and made lots of friends" to "I moved to the same town and everyone hated me because I rejected an invitation to church." That was the experience I had in my childhood Bountiful neighborhood. If you were Mormon you were accepted. If you were inactive you were a "project" and the recipient of fake friendship. If you were a non-member nobody knew your name, but we knew you were bringing down the neighborhood. Our neighborhood had lots of Mormon kids who all hung out, and one Catholic girl; I don't even remember her name or what she looked like, she was just "The Catholic girl." We were neighbors for 12+ years.
kletter1mann makes a solid point here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kletter1mann
... But I very much am opposed to insularity, provincialism, racism, sexism and (for lack of a better term) social mistreatment of the "other."
Because of #3 above I've tried to be very careful to couch my arguments in terms of a particular (and peculiar) element of Utah culture, not religion per se. That's because I truly don't believe that this topic stems direcly from religion or some particular LDS doctrine. Quite the contrary, in fact. I do, however, believe it stems from a specific subset of people living here with certain cultural practices who also happen also to be LDS. Maybe it's a holdover from the pioneer days and times of persecution and flight. I don't know, but what can be observed are the cultural practices and behaviors. ...
Utah culture has certain socially toxic elements to it. Far too many neighborhoods and people are incredibly insular. I knew this, but never realized just about bad it was until I left. Upon moving to the Midwest, it honestly surprised me at first how many people wanted to say hello to the new neighbors for no reason, at all, just.. to say hello.. and even though the newness is worn off they still come over sometimes for no reason. It's weird, but I think I like it. I never had a neighborhood like that there. The relief society would say hello and unless you broke into the "in group" your assigned friends would drop by monthly. That was it. Utah has such a strong in-group/out-group to the culture. Sure, a handful of you may win at Neighborhood Roulette and get into a great one where Mormonism is merely an aspect of neighborhood dynamics, but often you'll lose that gamble and end up in a place where most the neighborhood is simply part of the ward, and the ward is what matters.
Beyond that you have the passive-aggression. I've not seen it discussed on this forum before, but Weber State professor did a great research piece about passive-aggression as a conflict resolution in Utah, Mormonism, and used the Midwest+Texas as a control. He found that the Midwest/Texas control used the passive (Avoid) response as the least common method to conflict resolution. Non-LDS/Utah raised students used it a little more. LDS/Non-Utah raised students used it a little more. But LDS/Utah raised students used it by far the most. It was the preferred conflict resolution style and used over 2x more frequently than the Non-LDS/Non-Utah group.
This is why you hear so many stories of completely unacceptable behaviors about LDS, Utah natives. We (and I say we, because this describes me, I'm actively trying to overcome it) grow up in a society where it's acceptable to make disrespectful and judgmental remarks about "the other", and not only is it acceptable, but it is expected. We are better. We are the chosen generation. We are the anointed. Doctrinal or not, these types of things are unquestionably taught to us and it breeds some pretty toxic personality traits. If you transplanted to Utah and ended up in a neighborhood with a number of people with personalities like 25 year old me (or the majority of my family) you'd Nope right out of there; I would.
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Beyond that you have the passive-aggression. I've not seen it discussed on this forum before, but Weber State professor did a great research piece about passive-aggression as a conflict resolution in Utah, Mormonism, and used the Midwest+Texas as a control. He found that the Midwest/Texas control used the passive (Avoid) response as the least common method to conflict resolution. Non-LDS/Utah raised students used it a little more. LDS/Non-Utah raised students used it a little more. But LDS/Utah raised students used it by far the most. It was the preferred conflict resolution style and used over 2x more frequently than the Non-LDS/Non-Utah group.
This is why you hear so many stories of completely unacceptable behaviors about LDS, Utah natives. We (and I say we, because this describes me, I'm actively trying to overcome it) grow up in a society where it's acceptable to make disrespectful and judgmental remarks about "the other", and not only is it acceptable, but it is expected. We are better. We are the chosen generation. We are the anointed. Doctrinal or not, these types of things are unquestionably taught to us and it breeds some pretty toxic personality traits. If you transplanted to Utah and ended up in a neighborhood with a number of people with personalities like 25 year old me (or the majority of my family) you'd Nope right out of there; I would.
LOL, I stumbled onto this same study a year or 2 ago while pondering the many posts referencing passive-aggressive driving. Seems to explain a lot of commonly observed behavior. My son is doing a business internship here with a small business startup with a group of native Utahns. Almost daily he brings back stories of how utterly ineffective the group is because conflicts never get constructively resolved, they're either driven underground or avoided altogether.
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Thank you, and I wish you both the very best. 
MisfitBanana, I hope you find a friendlier place too! I should have never left Texas.... 
