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Hello everyone. I recently came across this website when researching individual accounts of living in certain states & areas across the country. I really enjoy the unfiltered, grassroots structure of the website, and so I would like to inquire with you good people about certain prospects and/or reservations regarding a huge decision I am facing, which you may have guessed by now involves moving to and establishing roots in Utah.
Before we get into the meat of it, I’d like to provide some background and context to my situation. Warning: long post ahead, proceed with caution.
I am a recent college graduate and have always been a driven and goal oriented person. I need ambitious prospects to keep myself motivated and performing to my fullest potential, and so I often set goals/plans long in advance. Basically, I am not so much a “go with the flow” kind of person, as I am a “set goals for yourself and work fervently towards them.”
Some more context I think you guys should know is that I was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York, and I have done my best to tolerate the culture of the area. Growing up, I’ve seen many of my peers succumb to depravities that—while not exclusive to highly concentrated urban environments—seem to overwhelm and destroy so many that reside here. I come from a working class immigrant family, though I myself was born in the United States (we are white and Christian). Despite our humble start, we climbed the economic ladder and now enjoy the comforts/status of the upper middle class, through the indomitable work ethic and entrepreneurial pursuits of my parents. I took and continue to take a lot of cues from my parents, and it has definitely contributed to my own ambitious nature.
My family and I are conservative. We believe in and have achieved great success & happiness through the application of many conservative principles—fiscal conservatism, personal responsibility, moral absolutism, and supporting the institution of the family above all else. I often credit being surrounded by a loving, stable family that inspired the best in me in being able to reject the pervasive influences that many of my peers succumbed to. And while I was not always immune to such influences—such as drug use, promiscuous sex, or other unworthy ventures—I never became so entrenched to the point where it steered me down a destructive path, which is more than I can say for most people I know.
I dislike just about every aspect of New York City culture—and I know for a fact that this is a less of a “NYC” issue and more of an urban-cultural Marxist environment issue. I’ve been to many of the major cities throughout the United States—Philadelphia, Pittsburg, Trenton, Boston, Richmond, Washington D.C, Miami, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco, etc.—and noticed they mostly have superficial differences (climate) but have many of the same cultural and societal issues. Alternatively, I’ve always enjoyed being in suburban and rural environments, places that really embody a small-town feel and don’t put much between us and the great outdoors. To me, not only are these areas more pleasant, but the culture between the people is considerably more virtuous.
As you might have guessed, I really love the idea of a big, loving, and supportive family. I’ve been excited to one day be married and have children since I was like 5, whereas many boys & girls at that age still found each other repulsive. I’ve also had something of a reputation among my peers as the guy who only engages in serious, long term relationships—whereas most of my peers had (and reveled in) short, casual, non-committal relationships.
While applying for graduate school, I concurrently began a large personal project which I dubbed “Roots.” I have known for a while that I’d like to one day, when I’m finished with all my schooling and military service (more on that later), not return to New York—officially move elsewhere to start a family and put down roots. I’ve been working on this project vigorously for months, evaluating as much information & data about a state/area as I can. This includes, but is not limited to, aspects such as social culture, real estate markets, state constitutions & legislatures, and tax codes. I won’t bore you folks with additional details, but I can honestly say that of the 12 states I have thoroughly evaluated, Utah was the most attractive.
Now to the meat of it. I will soon be attending graduate school and upon completion immediately join the U.S Army to pay off my graduate loans and receive eligibility for a VA home loan. This is about a five year investment, after that I am free to finally move and put down roots. I am strongly considering Utah to be the eventual state to put down roots and call home.
The things that resonated with me the most regarding Utah is its lifestyle—its social culture and outdoors recreation. I am a huge outdoorsman who loves hiking mountains & long distances, canoeing, sport-shooting, camping, and just about anything that detaches me from concrete jungles and brings me closer to blissful nature. The sheer amount of Utah’s state and national parks, coupled with its extremely varied geography and climate, make it very attractive to me.
The suburban areas of Utah are also very attractive to me. The housing prices for a spacious home/land is reasonable, and the areas are beautiful. While I was researching the housing markets for all of these states, none quite stood out and gave me warm vibes like the homes in Utah—specifically the areas in Davis county.
Socially speaking, I think Utah’s communities “get” me. I’ve noticed the reverence for cultivating the institution of the family, and just how hospitable and committed folks are from the state. As someone who experiences a lot of social isolation where I currently live, due to many lifestyle differences with those around me, I can’t tell you how wonderful it is when I’m actually surrounded by good company—virtuous, thoughtful, and principled folks. Considering how moral and spirited folks in Utah seem to be, I feel like this would be an ideal place for me to live and raise a family.
Another very attractive prospect in regards to Utah is how politically conservative its constituency is. This is particularly important to me, as my eventual professional goals involve a career in politics. It would be refreshing to live in an area where the majority of people share my political views and sentiments, as opposed to my current state where everyone opposes and chastises me for my views. Furthermore, Utah would give me a platform to achieve my political aspirations that I would never have where I currently am.
Now onto my reservations, which is where your valued counsel is required! The biggest and most obvious reservation I have in moving to Utah is the high concentration of Mormons and their acceptance of me and my potential family. I am obviously not of the Mormon faith, nor do I have plans to be. While I myself am not affiliated with any specific religion, I do consider myself a spiritual person and have always lived by a motto of “interpret religious doctrines metaphorically, not literally.” I believe most religious teachings revere certain principles, values, and morals that if adopted to our lives, can lead us to living more virtuous and meaningful existences. I think this is something that the LDS communities and I have in common and will get along with swimmingly.
However, I am much more of a pragmatist and skeptic when it comes to interpreting religious teaching in a literal sense. I believe there is a lot of supernatural elements that are difficult to believe and just do not resonate with me. For example, while I believe he is the embodiment of virtue and a positively revolutionary figure to be worshiped, I do not believe Jesus Christ is the literal son of God. I think many of you can already imagine how this relates to my admittedly limited understanding of the Book of Mormon. I do not believe that Joseph Smith encountered God, nor do I believe many of the subsequent teachings of the doctrine. However, that is okay—my understanding or belief is not required for me to respect and appreciate their religion, culture, and lifestyle. My concern is whether they would accept and appreciate me for who and what I am.
Essentially what I am trying to convey in this extremely long winded response is that I am concerned whether I will likely experience personal and professional coercion or discrimination in Utah. I understand that Utah has an extremely high concentrated population of Mormons, and I just wouldn’t want to feel excluded or shunned from my community because of my difference of faith/lifestyle. I love to be involved with my community and would want to feel comradery with my neighbors—for our families to interact and get together for fun. So what if I drink coffee and practice a different faith, you know?
Specifically, in professional terms, I am concerned as to whether I will face hiring or performance review discrimination based on not being a Mormon. I am currently involved in education (I’ve taught American History, Civics, and Government in both middle schools and high schools) and am planning to continue that after I finish my military service—at least until I can earnestly begin my foray into politics. I can’t help but wonder whether school administrators, school board members, community board members, and the PTA may have serious reservations about a non-Mormon educating their Mormon children—especially when the majority of the school consists of Mormon students. I understand this may be a far-fetched thing to be concerned about…but I have to consider all possibilities. Now I personally have some pretty thick skin, but I would be absolutely livid if someone were to discriminate against my future wife or children based of a difference of religious affiliation.
In regards to my political prospects, I’ve noticed that the majority of legislators in all levels of government—local, state, and federal—are Mormons. I’ve also noticed through studying the state’s history that the majority of people elected to public offices in Utah have been Mormons. That makes perfect sense, people vote for those who they feel can most accurately represent them—this includes those who are a part of their faith. I wonder that although I agree with Utah’s constituents on matters of policy, if they would choose me over a fellow Mormon.
Anyway, that concludes my long-winded inquiry on addressing my reservations about moving to Utah. After doing much research, I’d like to disclose that I very much enjoy what I see in Davis County—and see great opportunity in the cities of Kaysville, Layton, and Bountiful. Their education system, conservative constituency, and proximity to the state’s capitol make them a potentially very attractive prospect. Of course, same concerns apply.
Thank you for taking the time to read about my situation, and thank you in advance for your responses. Cheers, and God bless!
Wow! That was some introductory post. We seldom get that much information about people right off the bat, but it is helpful. I think Utah would be a good fit. I don't believe you'd face any problems in terms of job opportunities or advancement in the teaching profession in Utah. There are a great many teaching professionals in Utah who are not LDS. In most cases, neither the students or the parents have any idea what religion their kids' teachers are, nor do they care. You don't have to tell any prospective employers what your religion is and I doubt very much that they'd ask. You may find that Davis County has a slightly higher percentage of Mormons than Salt Lake County does, but not significantly. I would offer you only one word of caution: Mormons strongly believe themselves to be Christians. I don't know whether you consider them to be so or not, and it really doesn't matter to me. I would just suggest that you never refer to them as non-Christian or emphasize the us versus them attitude. If you take my advice on that point, I believe you'd be fine and that your move to Utah would end up being everything you hope it would be.
A recent transplant from Florida who is a middle-school teacher had many of the same concerns you do when she moved here in June. Except for a nightmare when it came to renting, she had been thrilled with her decision to move and teach here. She is living in Salt Lake City but teaching in a Park City middle-school. By the way, she is not religious at all. Here's what she said to me in a recent message:
"Ecker Hill is the most amazing school with the most amazing staff! I am in awe at how kind and helpful everyone has been. After teaching in a high-poverty school for so many years, I am amazed at the resources that Park City has in its schools. I am seriously on cloud-nine!"
I believe you can forget politics unless you live in Salt Lake City. It is more liberal and only about 50% LDS. Latter Day Saints is the preferred term instead of Mormon. In smaller towns, your eventual kids may face some discrimination, especially once they reach dating age. Read the thread by Mama Grace.
Thank you Katzpur for your very gracious reply. Indeed, I like to be thorough!
I personally consider Mormons to be Christians, so there's no "them versus us" attitude here. They are my brothers and sisters in the eyes of God, and I hope they extend me and mine the same courtesy.
I have noticed during my research that there are more non-Mormons in Salt Lake City/County--though I am rather adamant on not wanting to live in a city. I find cities to be great places to work or travel to for recreational activities, but not a place to come home and hang your hat. I prefer the intimacy, peace, and spaciousness of a small-town environment. Davis county seems to fit that picture perfectly--especially considering it is about a 20 minute drive from the capital (which is ripe with employment opportunities).
Also, I don't mean to be sound like a partisan, but according to voting data and registration records, Salt Lake City seems to be the most liberal pocket of Utah. Makes sense, the most populated urban environments seem to unanimously gravitate towards liberalism. Regardless, I'd want to be surrounded at home by like minded individuals.
I have noticed that while Utah has the lowest per capita spending per student in the nation, that Davis and Salt Lake counties are the exception--with excellent schools that have rigorous standards and high graduation rates. I can't tell you how much that means to me, as someone who has taught at schools where I am ordered to lower my standards and expectations of students in order to create a "fair playing field for students of all backgrounds." It's no wonder that so many students in my city end up flunking college, not knowing how to step up to adversity, and having unrealistic expectations of life. I am gladdened to hear that if I do move to Utah and become employed in a school, that I will have the resources and authority to cultivate a learning environment that encourages students to give nothing less than their best.
I believe you can forget politics unless you live in Salt Lake City. It is more liberal and only about 50% LDS. Latter Day Saints is the preferred term instead of Mormon. In smaller towns, your eventual kids may face some discrimination, especially once they reach dating age. Read the thread by Mama Grace.
Thank you for your honesty. I will do so.
One question, when you say "you can forget politics unless you live in Salt Lake City", do you mean that residents outside of SLC are apolitical--not interested in politics?
One question, when you say "you can forget politics unless you live in Salt Lake City", do you mean that residents outside of SLC are apolitical--not interested in politics?
Reading between the lines I think this means that unless you're LDS you're not going to be elected against an LDS candidate. Your values matter not one whit. Salt Lake City (and maybe Salt Lake County) have a large enough non-LDS population for a non-LDS candidate to be elected. Should you land in an overwhelmingly LDS community don't thing for a second that sharing general social or political values with the LDS will get you either socially accepted, much less elected. You're either LDS or you're not. I believe that this is the thread SouthernBelle refers to. Read carefully and reread again.
Reading between the lines I think this means that unless you're LDS you're not going to be elected against an LDS candidate. Your values matter not one whit. Salt Lake City (and maybe Salt Lake County) have a large enough non-LDS population for a non-LDS candidate to be elected. Should you land in an overwhelmingly LDS community don't thing for a second that sharing general social or political values with the LDS will get you either socially accepted, much less elected. You're either LDS or you're not. I believe that this is the thread SouthernBelle refers to. Read carefully and reread again.
Well, that is certainly not encouraging. Politics is a huge part of my personal and professional life, and I'd hate to not meet my ambitions because of an unbalanced playing field. I'd hope that my political ideology and principles would count more than religious affiliation--especially when I'm certain most LDS would agree with me unanimously on policy issues.
I read the thread thoroughly, and truthfully I find it discouraging that my family and I may face discrimination despite the fact that I'm Christian, dedicated my career to public service, and a veteran.
You know, I really hate to think someone would choose not to move to Salt Lake City because of a handful of comments on this forum. I hope the OP will consider the facts that Salt Lake City has not had an LDS mayor since 1985. Obviously enough people are willing to look beyond religion to have elected five non-LDS mayors in a row in the last 32 years. I personally feel that most LDS people would be more interested in a politician's values and his position on policies that affect their way of life than in his religion. The majority of Utahns are conservative. They stand for conservative values and if someone is willing to stand with them for these values, I think they'd vote for that person.
You know, I really hate to think someone would choose not to move to Salt Lake City because of a handful of comments on this forum. I hope the OP will consider the facts that Salt Lake City has not had an LDS mayor since 1985. Obviously enough people are willing to look beyond religion to have elected five non-LDS mayors in a row in the last 32 years. I personally feel that most LDS people would be more interested in a politician's values and his position on policies that affect their way of life than in his religion. The majority of Utahns are conservative. They stand for conservative values and if someone is willing to stand with them for these values, I think they'd vote for that person.
Thank you for your words of encouragement and reassurance, Katzpur. I've read your posts on MamaGrace's forum and you seem to be a genuine representation of the best SLC have to offer.
I am kind of getting conflicting narratives, but I'd definitely like to believe you. It is my sincere hope that my merit, character, and policy positions would be the deciding factor--not my religious affiliation. I realize SLC is something of a maverick in Utah politics, but it seems to be steered towards liberal platforms. That said, while I am a staunch conservative, it is encouraging to see non-LDS members elected to public office.
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