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Old 05-15-2018, 03:40 AM
Status: "hmm, what to do with all the cat food I just bought...." (set 23 hours ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,408 posts, read 16,649,341 times
Reputation: 16399

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Ok, I'm asking. My situation is that my son and his wife and apparently her family who live with them are converted Mormons. They live in Salem Utah. They were all from California and were converted there.

I moved out of California as its cost of living is soooooo high, and I was on disability. A friend of mine had moved to Oklahoma, and I bought with some help. I still live in my little house, 719 sf feet with the extra room where 'stuff' goes. I've lived here ten years. Its always been managable, but of late there's been a lot of problems. Mostly, all my 'rides' have moved or died. My sister in law died a few months ago, possibly from pain pills as she was ill and may have topped them off. My nephew found her. He lives with his grandparents now, helping them with driving and them making sure he takes his meds.

So at this point, I'm the only one left here. My son and wife took a trip out last summer to visit and sprung one on me, their idea. They were buying a house. They had her family, parents and other grown kids, living with them and all of them moved into the new place. They each have their own 'home' area. They are all mormon converts. And they have three dogs. I have two, not to mention my cats. But I can just see my big shepard mix deciding he needed to chase away my son's big dog. Or visaversa.

But... and this is a major problem, Right now, I DON'T feel secure where I live. If my dog has an emergency, I have nobody to call for a ride. No rides for pets on the retired bus. It used to be busy with people shopping but most order it all on line now. And while they'd probably get me to the hospital if I had to get there (like when I cut my hand), my pets are s/o/of luck. That's not acceptable. Moving from here sounds better all the time, except when I think about it. And I do want to be close to my son and daughter in law and be family. I'm sure they'll accept me, but not give up. Especially her. And my son and I had that conversation. I'll stay pagan, but fully expect not to be harrassed by anyone over it. I mentioned this but she kinda said well, yes. But then she said, but well, and I have a feeling it will not work out so well. And my pets are my kids and NOT disposable.

But in terms of converted Mormons promising to not try to spread the word, even if its family and they really mean do not or I'll be telling you to shut up next time, is it reasonable to have your wishes accepted. I don't care about general population just the people close since I've never felt 'normal' and of that one mold and will be sure to let anyone know who tries.


I don't want to stay here. I don't want to go back to California, unless its northern California. Its very laid back and nobody would bug me if I'm pagan, love animals, or don't want to follow some religions 'rules' if its not one I believe in.

All of this my son knows. He's sure, however, if they get me up there to Salem, I'll love it and be fine. And my daughter in law, however, kept bringing up religion. over and over.

Yet I really want to have my son, and his family near. And the 'norm' for an area is usually a very big matter. I've had mormon friends, but none of them bugged us about religion except one who was told...pointedly.... that her religion was HERS and not ours and lay off or leave. She mostly laid off.

What's the chance that as a non mormon who will not question your choice, and does not mean by that that its shared. And does not care about your beliefs and so long as left alone in mine and will continue JUST ignoring yours have any chance of being happy or despite having family around, feel all alone? Is there a chance that the request to just not ever bring it up really has a chance of working?

I know that things here are unlikely to be getting better, and I do miss family, which would be my son and his, and don't really care what they believe as long as it isn't something I'm to join into. Just as my pagan beliefs will be my business and not theirs too. I'm not much for ceremony either so I mostly keep it simple and with meaning.

Also.... there IS a 'pagan chruch' in I think in Salt Lake City, I'd have to google it again. Its a group of alternative religions who have gathered together and come on Sundays and are open to anyone. They have groups you can join or visit, but the rule is respect for ALL. Should I end up where I can get to it, it would be wonderful. Its got wiccans and those who follow ancient naturalist teachings and eastern faiths and a great variety, and its value is seen as there is something for everyone.

(I even looked up the cost of living in the area and it was wayyy to high, at least on what Social security pays, but I think it might pay more if its more expensive to live in an area)

Last edited by nightbird47; 05-15-2018 at 04:13 AM..
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:03 AM
 
Location: East Millcreek
2,350 posts, read 4,915,256 times
Reputation: 2532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiruko View Post
Exactly. It's frustrating, however, that people seem to think it is publicly acceptable to malign and complain about LDS and not other minorities/groups of people.
Seriously?? A lot of Jewish people would strongly disagree with this sentiment. So would a great many Muslims. Both are widely and publicly maligned. And I've heard far of that here in Utah than I ever did in NY (where the general view of Mormons is just that they're often dorky in appearance and abstemious in habit - which is not entirely wrong).
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Old 05-15-2018, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,195 posts, read 20,812,540 times
Reputation: 9884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kletter1mann View Post
Seriously?? A lot of Jewish people would strongly disagree with this sentiment. So would a great many Muslims. Both are widely and publicly maligned. And I've heard far of that here in Utah than I ever did in NY (where the general view of Mormons is just that they're often dorky in appearance and abstemious in habit - which is not entirely wrong).
I would venture a guess that there has never been once in my life when I have been outside of Utah that anyone at all would have been able to look at me and say, "There goes a Mormon." As a matter of fact, whenever I've been out of state and have been somewhere where there are hundreds of people -- let's say at a Yankees game or at the Kennedy Center in NYC, I've looked around and wondered, "Do I look different from any of these people? Do I stand out? In this large of a group, I'm assuming there are a handful of Mormons besides me. Can I pick them out of the crowd?" And time after time, I end up coming to the same conclusion. We're not as "dorky" as we're made out to be.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:14 AM
 
Location: Evanston & Lake Forest, Illinois
625 posts, read 292,684 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by kletter1mann View Post
Seriously?? A lot of Jewish people would strongly disagree with this sentiment. So would a great many Muslims. Both are widely and publicly maligned. And I've heard far of that here in Utah than I ever did in NY (where the general view of Mormons is just that they're often dorky in appearance and abstemious in habit - which is not entirely wrong).
I am Jewish and LDS. I think that LDS people are not afforded the same level of sensitivity that other minority groups are. I think it is very obvious. I think that anti-Mormonism in the public sphere has a tendency to most often present itself in politics, entertainment, and so-called intellectual circles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
Ok, I'm asking. My situation is that my son and his wife and apparently her family who live with them are converted Mormons. They live in Salem Utah. They were all from California and were converted there.

I moved out of California as its cost of living is soooooo high, and I was on disability. A friend of mine had moved to Oklahoma, and I bought with some help. I still live in my little house, 719 sf feet with the extra room where 'stuff' goes. I've lived here ten years. Its always been managable, but of late there's been a lot of problems. Mostly, all my 'rides' have moved or died. My sister in law died a few months ago, possibly from pain pills as she was ill and may have topped them off. My nephew found her. He lives with his grandparents now, helping them with driving and them making sure he takes his meds.

So at this point, I'm the only one left here. My son and wife took a trip out last summer to visit and sprung one on me, their idea. They were buying a house. They had her family, parents and other grown kids, living with them and all of them moved into the new place. They each have their own 'home' area. They are all mormon converts. And they have three dogs. I have two, not to mention my cats. But I can just see my big shepard mix deciding he needed to chase away my son's big dog. Or visaversa.

But... and this is a major problem, Right now, I DON'T feel secure where I live. If my dog has an emergency, I have nobody to call for a ride. No rides for pets on the retired bus. It used to be busy with people shopping but most order it all on line now. And while they'd probably get me to the hospital if I had to get there (like when I cut my hand), my pets are s/o/of luck. That's not acceptable. Moving from here sounds better all the time, except when I think about it. And I do want to be close to my son and daughter in law and be family. I'm sure they'll accept me, but not give up. Especially her. And my son and I had that conversation. I'll stay pagan, but fully expect not to be harrassed by anyone over it. I mentioned this but she kinda said well, yes. But then she said, but well, and I have a feeling it will not work out so well. And my pets are my kids and NOT disposable.

But in terms of converted Mormons promising to not try to spread the word, even if its family and they really mean do not or I'll be telling you to shut up next time, is it reasonable to have your wishes accepted. I don't care about general population just the people close since I've never felt 'normal' and of that one mold and will be sure to let anyone know who tries.


I don't want to stay here. I don't want to go back to California, unless its northern California. Its very laid back and nobody would bug me if I'm pagan, love animals, or don't want to follow some religions 'rules' if its not one I believe in.

All of this my son knows. He's sure, however, if they get me up there to Salem, I'll love it and be fine. And my daughter in law, however, kept bringing up religion. over and over.

Yet I really want to have my son, and his family near. And the 'norm' for an area is usually a very big matter. I've had mormon friends, but none of them bugged us about religion except one who was told...pointedly.... that her religion was HERS and not ours and lay off or leave. She mostly laid off.

What's the chance that as a non mormon who will not question your choice, and does not mean by that that its shared. And does not care about your beliefs and so long as left alone in mine and will continue JUST ignoring yours have any chance of being happy or despite having family around, feel all alone? Is there a chance that the request to just not ever bring it up really has a chance of working?

I know that things here are unlikely to be getting better, and I do miss family, which would be my son and his, and don't really care what they believe as long as it isn't something I'm to join into. Just as my pagan beliefs will be my business and not theirs too. I'm not much for ceremony either so I mostly keep it simple and with meaning.

Also.... there IS a 'pagan chruch' in I think in Salt Lake City, I'd have to google it again. Its a group of alternative religions who have gathered together and come on Sundays and are open to anyone. They have groups you can join or visit, but the rule is respect for ALL. Should I end up where I can get to it, it would be wonderful. Its got wiccans and those who follow ancient naturalist teachings and eastern faiths and a great variety, and its value is seen as there is something for everyone.

(I even looked up the cost of living in the area and it was wayyy to high, at least on what Social security pays, but I think it might pay more if its more expensive to live in an area)
Sir/Ma'am,

That is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. I don't know what any of that has to do with this thread.

Last edited by Hiruko; 05-16-2018 at 02:42 AM..
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:00 PM
 
884 posts, read 628,140 times
Reputation: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Personally, I think that the same problem exists pretty much anywhere where there is a single dominant religion. I don't think it's that the people who belong to that religion intentionally ignore "outsiders." It's just that they don't stop and think about how it would feel to be part of the minority. I've done and will continue to do everything I can to change that as it exists in Salt Lake City, but it's going to require that an awful lot of other people do the same, and I just don't think they're even aware that they're part of the problem.
Katz I am inclined to agree which is why i prefer to live in a more secular and diverse place. It exists in other states as well as countries where a religion as you say is dominant. But I also agree there are lots like you in Utah Katz who look past that. We have a mix of Mormon and non Mormon friends as do our kids from living there for 2 years. We have been moved over a year now and this will be our second summer of going back to visit and friends are still regularily in touch and also offer us a place to stay even though we don't need it even though we are now in another country. Our general friends were fab and we met them in many ways, sadly our neighbourhood was not as in to mixing as a community which saddens me as I have that in abundance where we moved to. I don;t think its personal its just the church expects so much commitment from its members on multiple nights and people constantly running multiple kids to endless scheduled activities that they dont have time to just chill out and mix or socialise unless its at church and you belong to that .

I have religious friends here an non but it does not interfere with mixing as a community and people make time to see others of all backgrounds etc outside of a place of worship and many friends not involved in religion at all. Just this week after school our local community opened a new resource and they threw a neighbourhood event from 3pm onwards, BBQ, other food, bounce houses, music face painting and lots of people turned up as a community . Was really fun and people just come out, to mix, chat and have fun and nothing to do with being your ward or anything else. It was just there for all in the town to enjoy free of charge. Kids, adults, seniors etc. We have a summer community event coming up soon in our local park for the town organised by the local council and everyone will just turn up. Funfair rides, food, cakes, displays, music, entertainment and people will just sit in the park and enjoy the day with a picnic or buy food from the trucks that are there. No running to multiple activities or commitments they know the event is that day and everyone just relaxes, sits in the sun and enjoys the fun
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:15 PM
 
Location: East Millcreek
2,350 posts, read 4,915,256 times
Reputation: 2532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I would venture a guess that there has never been once in my life when I have been outside of Utah that anyone at all would have been able to look at me and say, "There goes a Mormon." As a matter of fact, whenever I've been out of state and have been somewhere where there are hundreds of people -- let's say at a Yankees game or at the Kennedy Center in NYC, I've looked around and wondered, "Do I look different from any of these people? Do I stand out? In this large of a group, I'm assuming there are a handful of Mormons besides me. Can I pick them out of the crowd?" And time after time, I end up coming to the same conclusion. We're not as "dorky" as we're made out to be.
No, certainly not. I was commenting on the perception, whether true or false.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:16 PM
 
Location: East Millcreek
2,350 posts, read 4,915,256 times
Reputation: 2532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiruko View Post
I am Jewish and LDS. I think that LDS people are not afforded the same level of sensitivity that other minority groups are. I think it is very obvious. I think that anti-Mormonism in the public sphere has a tendency to most often present itself in politics, entertainment, and so-called intellectual circles.
Maybe you can tell us how that works.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,195 posts, read 20,812,540 times
Reputation: 9884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kletter1mann View Post
No, certainly not. I was commenting on the perception, whether true or false.
Yeah, except that you said that the perception was not entirely wrong.
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:57 AM
 
Location: East Millcreek
2,350 posts, read 4,915,256 times
Reputation: 2532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Yeah, except that you said that the perception was not entirely wrong.
No, not ENTIRELY wrong. Don't you think there's ever a grain of truth to stereotypes? New Yorker's certainly have a reputation for walking fast, talking fast, and being quite direct. Not all are, but it's certainly a fair characterization. And abstemious applies to Mormons very, very often.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:30 AM
 
884 posts, read 628,140 times
Reputation: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Personally, I think that the same problem exists pretty much anywhere where there is a single dominant religion. I don't think it's that the people who belong to that religion intentionally ignore "outsiders." It's just that they don't stop and think about how it would feel to be part of the minority. I've done and will continue to do everything I can to change that as it exists in Salt Lake City, but it's going to require that an awful lot of other people do the same, and I just don't think they're even aware that they're part of the problem.
Katz I am inclined to agree which is why i prefer to live in a more secular and diverse place. It exists in other states as well as countries where a religion as you say is dominant. But I also agree there are lots like you in Utah Katz who look past that. We have a mix of Mormon and non Mormon friends as do our kids from living there for 2 years. We have been moved over a year now and this will be our second summer of going back to visit and friends are still regularily in touch and also offer us a place to stay even though we don't need it even though we are now in another country. Our general friends were fab and we met them in many ways, sadly our neighbourhood was not as in to mixing as a community which saddens me as I have that in abundance where we moved to. I don;t think its personal its just the church expects so much commitment from its members on multiple nights and people constantly running multiple kids to endless scheduled activities that they dont have time to just chill out and mix or socialise unless its at church and you belong to that .

I have religious friends here an non but it does not interfere with mixing as a community and people make time to see others of all backgrounds etc outside of a place of worship and many friends not involved in religion at all. Just this week after school our local community opened a new resource and they threw a neighbourhood event from 3pm onwards, BBQ, other food, bounce houses, music face painting and lots of people turned up as a community . Was really fun and people just come out, to mix, chat and have fun and nothing to do with being your ward or anything else. It was just there for all in the town to enjoy free of charge. Kids, adults, seniors etc. We have a summer community event coming up soon in our local park for the town organised by the local council and everyone will just turn up. Funfair rides, food, cakes, displays, music, entertainment and people will just sit in the park and enjoy the day with a picnic or buy food from the trucks that are there
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