Saint George Utah - anyone have any info (St. George, Washington: maintenance, income)

[Blondie-Rabbit]

I checked out Sand Hollow last night. There is a small trailer house (temp type) that is their sales office. A few homes built. The golf course is a little bit of sod being watered. Nothing else is out there. I talked to Lance Gifford the building commissioner for Hurricane last night as well. The project has pretty much stalled. No one is buying. I live about 6 miles from where it is, and had wondered about all the talk about Sand Hollow. I had not connected it with the resavoir for some reason it seemed to me it was over nears Ivans. I really have to wonder about the place ever being built with the crunch on water. Yes the resavoir is there, but it was built for being a catch basin for the proposed pipeline from Lake Powell to bring needed water to the area. This complex seems to be about using that water for decoration and lawns/waterparks. If you knew the heated debates and fights out here over water, you would be questioning it as well.

There is a new resort that is going to be built up at the north end of Cedar City. A major hotel chain is putting that one in. I don't have the particulars of who yet. Masyor/police chief Browning of Enoch would have that information.

[The Casselli's]

This goes to Irish Mama...apparently it seems to me that you must have read only the last 2 posts from Blondie-Rabbit and The Casselli's. Blondie-Rabbit and myself were responding questions from a family moving from Temcula, CA to St. George. This is a married couple with children. They are known as the "(The)Calvenclan"(sp?) The Mrs had many questions and concerns about St. George regarding schools, eduation, locations, jobs, real estate, crime rate, drugs and being a NON-MORMON, including concerns about discrimation issues with family and her children getting a long with mormon children at school. In fact, Mrs. Calvanclan is STILL asking more and more questions about St. George. In addition, Mrs. Clavenclan is wanting to make a change for her family because Temcula use to be a very nice area to live and since like all things change in life, Temcula now dealing with higher crime rate, gangs, and is no longer a white bread city but a mixture of mexicans and philipinos and Blacks. You mentioned you know other places you lived before but I am not aware if you have ever lived or visited Temcula, CA. I have visited Temcula many times before it became the "place to live" and have family that lives there, since I am from California myself. So I completely understand her concerns. In addition, it was not only Blondie-Rabbit and myself providing our opinion and helping with answers about St. George, but others as well. Blondie-Rabbit and I had our differences as to what we have experienced living in St. George. I for one could only tell you what I have dealt with when I moved here and experienced with seeking employment, my daughter attending a new school her, working with Mormon employers, being non-white and non-mormon, a new recent relocator from California 3 years ago. If you read other "post replies" from relocators and even the locals from Utah, are also upset as to how Mormon employers treat employees and the wages are to be a shame!!!

There are lots of single mothers, wives, professionl women who need at least a good decent wage to be able to provide for our family and help our husbands. I have met many men and women that have 2 to 3 jobs here in St. George, Hurricane and Washington County that can not make it with the salary that is being paid. There are many relocators that have a dream of living somewhere such as a nice place like St. George, UT with the beauty that provides us everyday, but what about the important needs that are required to survive? What about the important needs of accepting and caring for one another regardless if were are a different race or religion? St. George use to be a retirement city but no anymore. There are more and more families looking to leave big cities that are not affordable or high crime and need to seek somewhere better for the sake of their families. St. George was top 3 in Money Magazine (depending on the month) but there are other cities and states as well that can also provide a better living. St. George has changed a lot in the last 3 years (since I've been here). People think and read fabricated stories about St. George in the newspaper or real estate or hear it through the grape vine or money magazine or family or friends that there is no crime, your kids are safe playing outdoors, no drugs in schools, teenagers are safer here then the big cities, and that the real estate market is the best and affordable and the employment is low and job market is wonderful!

But remember, I moved from California and we have a total different life style and the state of california offers much higher wages and benefits, but as everything, it also has it's down side and some of us have to move on and seek further for a better life. Your reason was to be closer to your family, right? Well, that's nice but for some of us were are further from our family and I am here by myself with NO FAMILY AT ALL! I am here because I fell in love with the beauty of the red rock canyons, clean city, friendly people, affordable housing, and in 2004 there were much more jobs available, but it has changed a lot. The people complain on a daily basis that hold a BA or Masters or both and get paid less then 12.00-16.00 per hour. There is a shortage of teachers in St. George and in Salt Lake City due to teachers getting paid low wages and having to still pay their education debt of over 100,000.00 of college loans and leave Utah to New York or California to get paid at least what they are worth (and still underpaid).

Yes, St. George is very beautiful. Still one of the safest cities to live and friendly people but I am in this forum to give MY TRUE experience of what I have come across. As a matter of fact, I just read another post from a women who is a professional and can't find work. She is over qualified and can't get a job so now she is asking the forum for help and advise. She now had to take 2 jobs at 9.00 per hour to try to be able to pay her rent!

Maybe your one of the lucky women/wives that do not have to provide and help your husband with extra income, so you really don't know how it's like. Maybe you have your family here to help and you have no idea how it's like to be alone without help. Maybe your mormon and you have an advantage of being selected for the better higher paying jobs or maybe your blessed with good luck?

However, all I can tell you is that I am a professional women who is trying to make it here in St. George by providing and obeying the laws and being a good american citizen. I own my home and help my neighbors in my community. I am not the only one that feels this way about St. George....you are more then welcome to talk to new neighbors and locals or recent relocators that feel the same way. Hopefully, the governor of Utah can do better for this state before it really gets into trouble. The schools are not the best. Utah was named worst in mortage fraud. There are many drugs in our children and college campus. Our police officers are not all what we believe them to be including the doctors. If you do not have medical insurance you are treated without respect by doctors and medical staff and even provide less then satisfactory medical service. If you are of another race or just down and out the police will harass you unjustly. This is happens all over the world but we are in the USA and we should not be mistreated.

LET ME AGAIN SAY.....THAT THIS IS NOT ALL THE POLICE DEPT AND ALL THE EMPLOYERS, AND ALL THE MEDICAL PHYSICIAN'S AND STAFF! I AM JUST SAYING WHAT I AND HUNDREDS OF OTHERS HAVE SEEN HERE IN ST. GEORGE, UTAH AND IT IS NOT RIGHT! SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE FOR THE SAKE OF THIS STATE AND OUR CITIES IN UTAH.

YES, IT IS A BEAUTIFUL PLACE...BUT IT IS GETTING UGLY INSIDE IF WE CLOSE OUR EYES AND CHOOSE TO IGNORE THE TRUTH.

BLONDIE-RABBIT AND I AND OTHERS ARE IN THE FORUM TO ASSIST IN WHICH EVER WAY WE CAN. THERE WILL BE MANY THAT DISAGREE AND SOME WILL AGREE BUT THAT IS WHAT THE FORUM IS ABOUT.

I HOPE THIS HELPS YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT BLONDIE AND I WERE DISCUSSING AND WITH THAT THERE WERE MISUNDERSTANDINGS AS YOU CAN RE-READ ALL OUR POSTS AS TO THE FAMILY FROM TEMCULA MOVING TO ST. GEORGE, UTAH.

[C44]

Dear Cassellis:

You and Blondie have a lot of good advice and present a diverse and seemingly fair look into the culture here. I am one of those over educated women with a great job history who cannot find a job-and believe me I apply to at least 5 a day.

There seems to be a growing population of transplants moving into St. George that go into culture shock very quickly. I hear the same complaint from transplants over and over. They love the place, but hate the life. There is no support-or place for them to go for help meeting people.

I heard there is a Newcomers club here, do you know anything about them? What about a in-person forum that people could physically attend to interact? How about starting one? Networking in a town like this is impossible unless you are part of the "club".

As far as the level of education here, you are right on point. I sub for the Washington School District and make 7 dollars an hour. I have spoken to many, many kids that are transplants and I tell you their stories of exclusion and struggles of trying to fit in will break your heart.

I've witness regular teachers discriminate openly against kids that don't fit their "profile". Something has to be done. I strongly urge parents to communicate and participate in their child's education-especially if they are new to this area.

I am also from Southern Cali and am familiar with the school system there. The big difference is the children that are raise here tend to be emotionally stunted and clueless as to life beyond the Zion Curtin. Parents who bring their children here need to understand that children raised here, even at the elementary level have diferent goals-going on missions and marrying a return missionary. Period. The rest will be provided by "prayer".

So, a child coming from out-of-state, that has been exposed to more in life is judged to be "fast" and a "bad influence" on the innocent. If you are able to, I encourage Parents to take the time to "sub" for the Washington School District and see what is really going on.

I am not saying that everthing is bad ,but I would never send my child to a school here.

[Aerorick]

Caselli's and Blondie pretty much say it how it is for the issues that pay the bills. And isn't that what counts? I'd love to be able to say that St.George and other small towns in Utah have the same good and bad as any other small town in America. But I can't. The wage and job structure is simply not sufficient for most young families to progress. Why is it that way and why is it so persuasive everywhere? You can reach your own conclusions.
I left 25 years as an aircraft mechanic with a major airline in SoCal to twenty acres 30 miles west of Cedar City that we own. I sold my house in California and contrary to many stereotypes did not get hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity but have enough to build a small comfortable home.
But I became painfully aware of a fact of life here. Although we don't need nearly as much to live as we used to, taking a $12/hr job here for the rest of my working life just doesn't cut it either.
I will be commuting to Vegas next month to a new airline as that is the closest airport where transport catagory aircraft live. Will it be a pain? Probably, but that's the way it is here. And I actually consider myself lucky.

[dogmom]

Utah is a 'right to work' state, meaning unions are few and far between, or in some areas, non existent. Thus the low wages and poor insurance options. That is just how it is and for us that come from more forward thinking states it is a shock. Thank goodness dh and I are not in the job market here...I worked previously in a high school, in the counseling office. I was a secretary and when I left there in 2003 after 7 years I was making over $17 an hour....same job here (and believe me I looked) was around $8.90 an hour. For someone with my knowledge and experiece that was insulting. Would not pay me to work here, period. I really don't know how a young family NOT coming here with equity money from another state could make it. Seems like this whole area is caught in a bubble.

[Aerorick]

This might not change anyones perception of why the wages are so God awlful low in Utah but here goe's. Utah's "Right to Work" status is shared by most states. That includes California. And that hasn't hurt the wages or the unions presence there. "Right to Work" only means that if you apply for a job with an employer that has a unionized workforce the employer has to tell you that you don't have to join the union to work there. And that's true in every state. In fact the unions are required to tell you that but like the employers they never do.
I was a teamster for 14 years in California as an aircraft mechanic. I resigned from them five days before there were going to expel me for advocating another union. And what happened? Nothing. The only differance is that instead of dues they had to come up with a monthly payment that covered their expense in representing me. It's called an "Agency Fee" And that mean't I got to choose a CPA to review their books. They never said another thing and I was still just fine with the job. It's all in the Labor Management Relations and Discloser Act (LMRDA). And although nobody follows it, it's still the law. To think otherwise would be to think a union can fire (expel) anyone they want regardless of what the employers wants.
All that to say that the lack of unions, or decent wages, in Utah is attributable to a much more unique power in Utah. In my opinion.

[Blondie-Rabbit]

OK we have all beat the job thing to death. We know it is crap. What about finding out about jobs we can network to find for others? What if we get proactive and help with finding those rare jobs and pass it on to others? I would much rather be doing something to help, rather than whine about it.

Who would help me in starting a thread about where to look for better than normal jobs? There is power in numbers!

[dogmom]

I get that 'unique power' thing...'nuff said

[dogmom]

Blondie, great idea....I'll start a thread and see who jumps in...maybe we can all put our heads together and list some jobs we might know of or openings somewhere....let's do something constructive, shall we?

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by Aerorick

All that to say that the lack of unions, or decent wages, in Utah is attributable to a much more unique power in Utah. In my opinion.

Assuming you are refererencing the LDS Church, I disagree with you. Active Church goers pay 10% of their income in tithing, so it would be in the Church's interest (if it got involved in such matters, and I don't believe it does) to encourage higher wages.

I believe Utah's wages are driven down because there is an oversupply of people relative to jobs. A lot of people who grew up here, move away for a few years, and then seek to return to be close to family. They do so, even if pay is not that great. Of the native Utahns I knew when I lived in Virginia, I can count 4 families, including my own, who chose to return to Utah in the last two years.

Lately, the job market has tightened, and wages have risen somewhat in Salt Lake. They are still not great, but have gone up. I don't know about St. George.

This is not only a problem in Utah. We have guests in town from Spokane right now. It's the same problem there. It's a nice place to live but there is little economic activity. So my Brother-in-law, who has a masters degree works in construction jobs for $12-15 an hour there. But he chooses to stay because they like the lifestyle there, minus the poor job prospects.