Non-mormon family looking to relocate to Lehi (Provo, Ogden: job, health)

[deeptrance]

What an interesting thread this is!

I'm a semi-atheist/agnostic/i-don't-know type who is open-minded, and I respect people who have passionate faith in anything that is a positive force in their lives. A problem with children and religion is that often kids are brought up to believe in things when they are too young to understand what those beliefs really mean, and then they do the normal human thing and form groups based on their beliefs.

But if they weren't forming LDS-based social groups, they'd be clustering based on what type of music they listen to, where they shop, how they dress, or what types of activities they like. People do that no matter what, so I wouldn't imagine that LDS social cliques are all that different in the level of cruelty they inflict on each other than any other group. Children can be vicious. Just think back to your own childhood.

It's easy to pick on the LDS kids and say they are unusual in the way they treat non-LDS, but I don't see how it's different from the way people are in general and it's good for children to learn how to embrace our differences and get along together. I don't mean that it's smart to subject your kids to misery by raising Blacks in a town that is full of KKK members, but within reason it's normal and healthy for children to experience group conflict, it is a mirror of what our world is like and it prepares them to learn how to be individuals and not buy into group-think.

[I'ze Evil, Joe]

Yeah, and in the iterim, what's the harm in having your kids taught that their parents are going to hell? I mean, I would be freaking out if they were trying to tell my kids that country music is cool or those shoes were last year's fasion. But over something as insignificant as having your children pressured into severing ties with the infidels .... well no big deal. That will be a good experience for them.

[deeptrance]

Evil Joe, I don't have the experiences you do with this sort of thing so I cannot comment. Seems you have some extremely negative history with the LDS church and I have no right to deny you the passionate feelings you harbor. But I also think that you're generalizing a negative experience with some people to an entire group of people, and my own experience with Mormons has been almost entirely positive.

Keep an open mind and heart. hating the haters is the same as being one of them. This is something the USA needs to learn in general --- our constant drumbeat of hate towards the Islamic radicals is ironic considering that our nation is increasingly being overrun by Christian radicals who have only a slightly less oppressive version of the Taliban as an apparent goal for their ideal government.

[DP525]

You know, I have been in Utah for almost a month and nobody has brought up religion. I don't know if it will be a big deal. We plan to go to a non-denominational Christian church while there as much for the fellowship as anything but also so my children will be exposed to that side of things. We are also generally not religious but feel we will need to go to keep a balance to things.

[I'ze Evil, Joe]

My open heart and mind says view the interview questions used to earn a "recommend" into the Temple...question #7 ought to be of most concern to anyone believing that their Mormon neighbor may turn out to be like any other non-LDS neighbor--simple fact is, you're spiritually dead to them and of zero use.

Living in Utah, particularly in the heart of Mormon country, means that you are the minority if you are not one of them. Here, they watch each other and "compete" with one another at being more devout and holy. He with the larger family and prettier wife gets the better slice of Heaven, and being your friend does not factor into that doctrine.

In places like Mesa, AZ where there are many Mormons as well, the per cent solution of them is weak enough such that we recognize many of our neighbors as being "Jack." They are not being watched as closely as they are in Utah, and as such "get away" with disobedience. Here they are more apt to be your friend because 10 of THEIR neighbors are now NOT Mormon, and now THEY are the minority. Now THEIR kids need friends to play with...THEIR kids may end up marrying OUTSIDE of LDS -- with the only difference being that mom and dad will be invited to the wedding, and there will be no fig leaves, chef's hats, chants, or handshakes.

Point? As long as you live in their world, you will not be a part of it. Do your homework before buying in any neighborhood. Park on your prospective purchase's street around the time the local ward lets out service and watch where the rats go to park. It's sure to be very eye-opening and perhaps even very frightening.

And watch for Temple placement...Say, Daybreak's getting a new Temple soon, isn't it?

[living in st george]

Originally Posted by I'ze Evil, Joe

My open heart and mind says view the interview questions used to earn a "recommend" into the Temple...question #7 ought to be of most concern to anyone believing that their Mormon neighbor may turn out to be like any other non-LDS neighbor--simple fact is, you're spiritually dead to them and of zero use.

Living in Utah, particularly in the heart of Mormon country, means that you are the minority if you are not one of them. Here, they watch each other and "compete" with one another at being more devout and holy. He with the larger family and prettier wife gets the better slice of Heaven, and being your friend does not factor into that doctrine.

In places like Mesa, AZ where there are many Mormons as well, the per cent solution of them is weak enough such that we recognize many of our neighbors as being "Jack." They are not being watched as closely as they are in Utah, and as such "get away" with disobedience. Here they are more apt to be your friend because 10 of THEIR neighbors are now NOT Mormon, and now THEY are the minority. Now THEIR kids need friends to play with...THEIR kids may end up marrying OUTSIDE of LDS -- with the only difference being that mom and dad will be invited to the wedding, and there will be no fig leaves, chef's hats, chants, or handshakes.

Point? As long as you live in their world, you will not be a part of it. Do your homework before buying in any neighborhood. Park on your prospective purchase's street around the time the local ward lets out service and watch where the rats go to park. It's sure to be very eye-opening and perhaps even very frightening.

And watch for Temple placement...Say, Daybreak's getting a new Temple soon, isn't it?

Thanks for the "Enlightenment"....when the groupies head out in my neighborhood on Sunday - it's time to mow the lawn!

By the way, I had a new "friendly" neighbor speaking to me for a couple of weeks..... but I think she has now realized that we are not Mormon..... We will see how long it is before her kids aren't hanging around in my house! It does make you want to pretend you are with the ward across town though - just so they continue to speak to you..... and here I thought that people liked me for who I am. Who knew that they just cared about which God I worshiped and how much of my salary I could give to the church every year! Do tell! I guess I never realized that God cared about how much money you could give him.

And I love the good will causes. Let's go down to the third world countries and help those in need. . . But here in America, make sure not to play with the little non-LDS boy down the street! We are teaching the next generation quite well, don't you think!

[Marat]

Originally Posted by DP525

You know, I have been in Utah for almost a month and nobody has brought up religion. I don't know if it will be a big deal. We plan to go to a non-denominational Christian church while there as much for the fellowship as anything but also so my children will be exposed to that side of things. We are also generally not religious but feel we will need to go to keep a balance to things.

I'm happy to hear this. I think you went in with a great attitude, knowing the possibilities and wanting to make the most of it. Utah can be a great place to live. I wish you well there.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by I'ze Evil, Joe

Park on your prospective purchase's street around the time the local ward lets out service and watch where the rats go to park. It's sure to be very eye-opening and perhaps even very frightening.

It's obvious that you have quite a bit of experience with Mormons. But your attitude basically borders on hate of them. With all due respect, you will not fit in well with people you disdain, nor should you expect to.

I think there mainly are three kinds of people on this board.

1. Those who really want or need to know what Utah is like because they may be moving here.

2. Those who like Utah and think it's a pretty nice place and want to help the people above.

3. Those who have had negative experiences in Utah or the LDS church for whatever reason. They feel compelled to shout out to the whole world about their negative experiences. I think its good to get all perspectives, but I fear that there is a missing group number 4 ...

4. Those who are reasonably happy here, but don't feel strongly one way or another and don't have much to say and wouldn't invest the time to read these postings. It's the absence of the fourth group that I think gives a distorted view of life here.

[Donna7]

I think that you have excellent points! Just so that you know, I don't live in UT, nor am I Mormon, I'm just reading these threads for fun, to learn something.

I think that people are all looking for something different, and different people react differently to things. For some, socialization, being part of a community, fellowship (religious or not) is as vital to life as oxygen is. I am one of those people. To me, friendships are exremely important. To my husband, I honestly think that he could live as a hermit and be totally happy. It doesn't matter to him what others think, if he's invited to anything, if he invites others to anything, that's just who he is. When he comes home from work, he wants to spend time with the family, do things in the yard, if he had more time (and once our kids are bigger, he would probably take up woodship or something like that). People are all different, but most importantly, in my opinion, life is just too short to stay somewhere where one is unhappy. That is not the purpose of life, to live unhappilly. Life should be joyous, and if one place is not right, there are so many more places to discover!

[DP525]

I stated this some time ago at the beginning of this thread. I am not a social butterfly. I enjoy having a friendly relationship with my neighbors but don't need close relationships outside of my own family. I am more concerned about my kids. Children need playmates and friends. I believe it is an important part of growing up. And I may have read it all wrong at Daybreak, but I think there is enough diversity and openmindedness (<--is that a word?) there and so many children that I don't think having playmates will be an issue. People that move there do so because of the friendly community atmosphere, not to hole-up in their backyard and shun the apostate neighbors.

Do I care that there is an LDS Temple being built there? Other than the fact I think the architecture of the temples is awful, no, I don't care. To each there own. It could be a Muslim mosque or Catholic cathedral and I still wouldn't care. As a matter of fact, that temple will be sure to raise my property value. But at least I can't see it from my house.