Non-mormon family looking to relocate to Lehi (Salt Lake City, St. George: estate, housing)

[gwert]

Someone once asked Dear Abby what it would be like to move to a certain new city. Abby replied "it will be just like your old town." Meaning if you liked your old city (had a positive attitude) you'll like your new one and vice versa. But if you're too critical, you'll probably have a negative attitude and be disappointed. Good luck.

[84045]

Originally Posted by pinkpalace

The LDS church teaches that it is the only true chuch

Living in Utah and being a non member of the church is very difficult. No matter what, your children are going to feel excluded by members. For that very reason "The LDS church teaches that it is the only true church". So what ever you believe in is wrong. I've also gotten the feeling it's the church's objective to make non members feel excluded so they will join.

I have lived in Utah 7 years. I moved to Utah looking forward to having Mormons as neighbors. People who didn't drink, smoke, had strong family values... after having them as neighbors I wish I never moved here. It's sad how important it is to them whether or not you're a member. It's one of the first things strangers have asked me.

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too

Imagin all the people
Living life in peace ...

[shanenlori]

84045,
Sorry you have had a bad experience. Have you thought about moving to a new neighborhood? If you are refering to Lehi or Utah county, I can see how your have arrived at this opinion. I grew up in UT county.

Not all mormons think that they are better than others and some of us are very accepting.

The "mormon" objective is not to make others feel excluded. We tend to be very passionate about our beliefs and just want to share them with others. I understand too, how that can make others uncomfortable.

I believe we are all God's children, regardless of our religion, and I wish we could just all get along.

[scirocco22]

Originally Posted by 84045

Living in Utah and being a non member of the church is very difficult. No matter what, your children are going to feel excluded by members. For that very reason "The LDS church teaches that it is the only true church". So what ever you believe in is wrong. I've also gotten the feeling it's the church's objective to make non members feel excluded so they will join.

I have lived in Utah 7 years. I moved to Utah looking forward to having Mormons as neighbors. People who didn't drink, smoke, had strong family values... after having them as neighbors I wish I never moved here. It's sad how important it is to them whether or not you're a member. It's one of the first things strangers have asked me.

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too

Imagin all the people
Living life in peace ...

Good insight, 84045.

It's funny, I grew up as a non-Catholic in a Roman Catholic neighborhood. Although our family was never hounded to join the Catholic church, all my playmates were Catholic. I always felt that I was never quite "one of them" and they always subtly made me feel that I was different and somehow not quite as good.

Don't most Christian denominations believe that their church is "the only true church"? I know specifically the Catholic church teaches or proclaims that IT is the only true church. That comes right from the Vatican.

Anyway, I guess my whole point here is just how poignant John Lennon's words are.

Thanks for posting that.

--'rocco

[neo]

I have read with interest this long and passionate thread about moving to Utah, the LDS Church, and how people treat others here. I have a somewhat different perspective to add than what has been posted so far. But first, I will give some background about myself.

I am active LDS, and was born and raised in the church. I was born in Salt Lake City, and for the more part of my life, I have lived somewhere in Utah. I have also lived in a number of other states, including Texas, Colorado, New Mexico, Florida and others. (My family moved extensively as I was growing up.) I currently live in the Salt Lake area, and have for several years.

I'll say this straight out - Utah is not the nicest state (it's not the meanest, either - Florida takes that spot, from among the states I've lived in). And, although the LDS Church is a very significant factor here in Utah, I do not believe it is the reason so many people treat others badly here. Compared to states like Texas, Utahns are cold, unhappy, impatient and very selfish people. People have a "leave me alone" attitude, it's nearly impossible to make REAL friends, and don't even get me started on all the road rage problems. All of this is just as true of the non-LDS here as it is of the LDS, if not more so. Now, of course not everyone here is this way. But too many are, and it is a big reason my wife and I are planning to move. Basically, the way I see Utah is as a cold, northern state. Generally speaking, there is a distinct difference between people in northern states and people down south, and Utah is no exception.

Like others in this forum, I've been treated badly by people in Utah; I've been excluded, ridiculed, and so forth as I grew up. And it wasn't because I'm not LDS. As I stated earlier, I've been an active member all my life. Some of the nasty people here who happen to be LDS do indeed sometimes use their religion as a club. But if they were non-LDS, they would be just as mean and would no doubt find some other instrument to abuse others with. And all of the flaming Mormon-haters (many of whom are former LDS members who were excommunicated for adultery or something similar) running around this city raising hell are certainly not helping the situation.

My wife and I have been in our current house in the Salt Lake area for over four years. Since we first moved in, we have tried over and over and over to extend ourselves socially to the other young couples in our ward (for the non-LDS, a "ward" is a local LDS congregation). We have tried to make friends, being proactive and not just waiting for people to make friends with us. This has worked to some small extent. We have managed to form one casual aquaintanceship with another family - but that's it. More often that not, our dinner invitations and other offers of social interaction have been rejected, sometimes rudely. "We're too busy" is the usual and totally lame excuse we get. Of course, it's not that they're too busy; it's that they aren't interested in anything other than their own little lives.

Meanwhile, there are the aforementioned bigots standing around outside the Salt Lake Temple grounds, often dressed in strange clothing, waiving hateful signs, screaming at couples who have just been married in the temple, passing out anti-Mormon literature and generally putting on a freak show.

Enough is enough. I have tried. I have tried to live here with my family, make friends and just get along. It isn't working - either with the LDS or the non-LDS. As soon as I graduate from college in several months, we are off to Texas.

[DP525]

Hey Neo,

Thanks for your reply. You certainly don't make me feel any better about my decision to move to Utah but your input is still interesting. As I stated some time back, I have set the ball in motion on my relo. My house is under contract here in Colorado so I can't really turn back now. The job I am taking is such a good opportunity that I can't really pass it up anyway. My family will make the best of our situation. Best case is we like it there and stay for many years. Worst case, we don't like it and we will be relocating again in two years after my obligation is up. A lot of the things you point out happen here too. People are busy with their lives. I understand. The fact is we are not entirely social butterflies here in Colorado either. We have a couple of families we "socialize" with but not very often. When I pointed out this fact to my wife, she felt better about going to Utah with the possibility of not making many friends.

Good luck to you in Texas. We visited Austin recently and it would have topped our list but for the heat and traffic. A nice city otherwise and I would highly recommend it.

[neo]

DP525,

Best of luck to you and your family here in Utah. Sorry to have been so negative earlier. My wife and I have a lot of frustration about Utah, but it certainly has its good points also. If you get into the right neighborhood, things should be okay. If possible, I would thoroughly investigate all prospective areas before signing off on a house. Talk to the local residents and see what kind of a feel you get for them. I would definitely recommend getting into a new community (of which there are many in Utah) as opposed to an older, more established location.

Texas is hot, although I should mention that it's probably not as hot as Utah during the summer. 100+ temperatures here are very common in July and August. However, it's dry heat, so it's not as bad as it would be if it were humid (as eastern Texas is). I lived near Dallas for four years and very much enjoyed it. We're thinking of the Houston area for our relocation. The primary motive is actually economic; housing is much cheaper there, and the job opportunities are better. And the social situation is, to us, more desirable.

[coolcats]

That’s funny. We moved to Utah from back east last year. One of our chief motivations was that housing was so cheap relatively. Of course jobs are not as plentiful, but not bad.

When comparing people, I would say the following. We knew very few people back East. Everyone was too busy commuting and working long hours to pay for their exorbitant mortgages. I was one of them.

In Utah, we still don’t know our neighbors as well as I thought we would, but then again we are not the socialites of the neighborhood. However, we have been invited to two neighborhood BBQs in the past year. That never happened in DC.

I have actually been surprised at how “non-LDS” the Salt Lake City area is. For sure the Church is a major influence, but it is certainly not the dominate force I thought it would be, at least where I live, work, and study. I think small towns and Utah County would be different.

I do not think Utah is paradise. I’m not beholden to Utah (of course my wife is much more than I) But it’s pretty dang good in a lot of aspects. Scenic beauty and national parks abound. The climate’s pretty good. Its relatively affordable. Some people are narrow-minded and judgmental (both LDS and non-LDS), some are uncultured, and some are self-absorbed. But there are quite a few nice people here too.

[neo]

Coolcats,

Good point about real estate prices being relative. I've never lived in DC, but I would think it's a fair amount more expensive there than in Utah. Certainly Utah is not the most expensive area in the U.S. Compared to San Diego, for example, Utah housing is fantastic. But I think prices here are getting way too high. For a very average house (three bedrooms, one bathroom, small lot) in Salt Lake County or even Utah County, you can expect to shell out close to $200,000 or more these days. For the same amount in Houston and surrounding areas, you get an enormous five-bedroom, 2.5-bathroom house on a large lot in a good area.

[coolcats]

We had a 1500 sq foot 2br townhouse bath in DC that we sold for $330k. It had a 10X12 brick patio for a yard and that's it. When we came to Utah we were able to buy a 3 bedroom, 2,500 square foot house for $177k. It also has a quarter acre lot (which we love)

That said, housing prices have appreciated a lot in the last year in Utah. The same house today is probably worth $210k. So the deals aren't as good as they were even a year ago, but still better than some places.