Non-mormon family looking to relocate to Lehi (St. George, Draper: relocating, foreclosures)

[shockjulie]

I am originally from Boise Idaho so grew up around the LDS. There were never any problems, I found them to be great neighbors and members of the community. My brother and family with school age children lived in Southern Idaho, and felt the "clicks" of the LDS kids, but I do think tha is somewhat inherently natural, i.e. if you are Catholic, you would probably lean toward friends from your Church, likewise the LDS. My brother's wife taught school in St. Anthony, and was responsible for bringing together the Boy Scout troop of non LDS kids, again, not to exclude them, but they had their own group and the other kids did feel left out. It is what you make of it. I lived in an apartment with 4 other LDS girls (I am denominational Christian) and never felt excluded or coerced into joining their religion. Instead, we grew a respect for each other's diversity.
My husband and I are considering retiring in Logan Utah, and I would be interested in hearing about the experiences of other on-LDS there. It is a beautiful area (must love snow). We may or may not have one child in high-school, depending on when we go.

[coolcats]

Hspjan -- I don't know if you've been to Utah, but your post, for all its pontificating on "open-mindedness" came across as quite narrow.

[Elder_Shawn]

Originally Posted by coolcats

Hspjan -- I don't know if you've been to Utah, but your post, for all its pontificating on "open-mindedness" came across as quite narrow.

Yeah I felt the same way after reading Hspjan's post. I love Utah and most of the people who come to live here do also.

[lazybumswife]

I too am non lds family, who has the chance and opportunity to move to the Lehi area for my husband to work at Micron. I'm worried that my children ages 2, and 3 will be shuned becase we are non LDS family. I'm looking foward for the opportunity that my husband has out there, but I worry about the strong influence that the LDS has in the area. Reading this I understand there are areas where we might want to look at homes if we are offered the job.

[RCL]

Originally Posted by Elder_Shawn

That is a very powerful statement that I personally take offense to. The Mormon church has many friendly and respectful people in its congregations. While I don't discount your feelings or if your kids were excluded from certain activities, it doesn't give you the license to label a church of over 10 million members a cult. If you recall history the LDS people did not move to Utah (rocky mountain region) by choice, but rather ended up here because they were forced by mobs to live in a place no one else wanted to.

I've been treated poorly from people of most "organized" religions, but I'm mature enough to understand that a small group rarely represents the whole.

Using your logic all Muslims are suicide bombers and all Catholics are child molesters. It's sad that an innocent real-estate forum has to be subject your bigotry and ignorance.

The size of your organization has nothing to do with its classification. By definition, it is a cult. If you want to see for yourself, just go to http://www.factnet.org/rancho5.htm. Or you can also pick up a copy of the late Walter Martin's book entitled Kingdom of the Cults in which he explains not only Mormonism but other cults as well.

The first and biggest red flag is that you follow the teachings of a man who claimed to have seen God in the Flesh...yet, God himself told Moses in Exodus 33:20 "Thou canst not see my face, for there shall no man see me and live." So who lied, God or Joseph Smith? Hmmmmmmm....

I quoted you the King James version because that's the only version your church recognizes as having any validity....and even that it is second to the Book of Mormon. It's so interesting that the your churches Articles of Faith state that you "believe the bible to be the word of God, insofar as it is translated correctly"...and while there are myriads of collateral texts/scrolls/transcripts going back as far as the first century that have been analyzed and found to be accurate, yet what evidence has there been that supports the existence of golden plates? The Bible has historic evidence to back it up, not even the Book of Mormon has that.

And, Joseph Smith was uneducated...yet, he "translated" the golden plates into KING JAMES ENGLISH which was not even spoken in this country in 1830.

The LDS church has made revisions to their scriptures over 4,000 times since the founding of the church. Yet, for all that they still say they doubt the accuracy of the bible.

Take offense all you want. The facts do not lie.

[coolcats]

Umm ... this is a forum for discussing the merits of a place to live and not a theological forum. I'm sure there are plenty of places for that if you do a google search.

[jeanne eakland]

Not sure if your mind is made up yet but I am an East Coast transplant,
liberal minded and have lived in Utah 25 years. The secret is to find a
neighborhood that is mostly non-LDS. ( no offense ), and also check out
the school first. I love my neighborhood and even though my husband has
been working in NM, my children refuse to move. When people relocate to Utah and have a hard time it is often because they didn't do the right research and move into neighborhoods that don't work out. Remember it is
all about "location, location, location. (I live near the U of U in SLC )

[RCL]

Originally Posted by coolcats

Umm ... this is a forum for discussing the merits of a place to live and not a theological forum. I'm sure there are plenty of places for that if you do a google search.

So just ignore it if you don't want to read it. The truth about Utah is if you aren't LDS (Mormon) you will find employment discrimination, housing discrimination, your kids will be left out of activities (if not also made fun of) and you will be thought of as an outcast by your neighbors because you are not a member of "the true church" like they (supposedly) are.

If you are a Republican who thinks (as Mormons do) that GW Bush is so sinless that he practically walks on water then you might have a little better chance here, but don't you dare have any Democrat or Independent bumper stickers, especially not pro choice, or anti-Iraq war, pro equal rights, or anything like that. Remember you are dealing with a religion that teaches their kids that a man is in charge of the woman, that you should go to a temple and get baptized for the dead, and where they tell teenagers that the best thing that could happen to this planet is to put all gay people on an island and blow up the island.

Utah has one of the highest teen suicide rates in the US. Every 11 days there is a teen suicide in Utah as stated in the Deseret News April 23, 2006. And Utah leads the nation in suicides among men age 15-24. Gee, I wonder why. Maybe a direct correlation on the pressure given to young men to go on a mission whether they want to or not. There is so much push by Mormon parents for their kids to come out of a cookie-cutter mold and be perfect and if they don't cut the mustard then even parents turn the back on the kids. Parents would rather shun their kids than risk becoming thought less of at church or in the "community" after all, their religion is all about achievement and status and they want to be sure to earn their way to the highest level of heaven.

I have seen it many times. It's a really sick form of child abuse and believe me, it transcends to your kids if they see their friends treated this way by their parents. It might not be *your* problem, but you'll be dealing with it with your kids. The neighbors who treat their own kids like dirt will treat your kids the same way.

And if you're any other ethnicity besides pure lily-white, then good luck. Heck, until about 25 years ago, the church doctrine stated that blacks were cursed by God so they couldn't advance in the church and they had no hope of making it to the highest level of heaven. Then supposedly around 81 or 82 God spoke to their leader and said that blacks were forgiven. However, there are still a lot of racists here in Utah especially in the St. George area.

So regarding your comment about a theological forum I do agree with you, but on the other hand, here is the correlation to this forum: You or anyone else may or may not want to discuss religion at all. But the fact is, these people do. And they will bring it up over and over again, and over and over again, and over and over again, and over and over again, ad nauseum. Their way of life is to try and convert people to their thinking, it's how they earn blessings for themselves. Until you dish it right back at them (that you believe differently and here's why...). Then when they realize they can't hook into their brainwashing, they will eventually leave you alone. That is, until the next one comes along. Not all Mormons are like that, but it's the rule rather than the exception especially here in Utah.

So if anyone reading this is considering moving to Utah, this is what you will find here. If you can handle it, then you'll probably find other things to appreciate such as the natural beauty and outdoorsy things to do.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by RCL

So just ignore it if you don't want to read it.

Posting your theological differences with the LDS church is irrelevant and detracts from the purpose of this forum. I will not ignore it because I enjoy reading and answering legitimate questions people have about Utah, and when people like you have an ax to grind it ruins it for the rest of us.

Originally Posted by RCL

The truth about Utah is if you aren't LDS (Mormon) you will find employment discrimination, housing discrimination

I'm sorry you feel that way. If you have been mistreated, then shame on those who did it. On the other hand, there are plenty of other people who have posted on this forum who aren't LDS who have had the opposite experience as yours. Do you think your negative attitude toward LDS people could have anything to do with your perceived discrimination?

Originally Posted by RCL

If you are a Republican who thinks (as Mormons do) that GW Bush is so sinless that he practically walks on water then you might have a little better chance here, but don't you dare have any Democrat or Independent bumper stickers, especially not pro choice, or anti-Iraq war, pro equal rights, or anything like that.

Drive around Salt Lake and you will see plenty of anti-war protests and stickers. Salt Lake City is surprisingly not that conservative. The rest of your slander about the LDS religion would be laughable if it were not so bigoted.

Originally Posted by RCL

Utah has one of the highest teen suicide rates in the US. Every 11 days there is a teen suicide in Utah as stated in the Deseret News April 23, 2006. And Utah leads the nation in suicides among men age 15-24. Gee, I wonder why. Maybe a direct correlation on the pressure given to young men to go on a mission whether they want to or not.

That's a tragedy. I do think there can be too much pressure for conformity among some LDS people. That said, I think your contention that religion is why Utah has a relatively high suicide rate is much too simplistic. How do you explain that Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Alaska, New Mexico, Oregon, Colorado, Idaho, Arizona, and West Virginia all have higher rates than Utah, if religion is the sole reason?

Originally Posted by RCL

I have seen it many times. It's a really sick form of child abuse and believe me, it transcends to your kids if they see their friends treated this way by their parents. It might not be *your* problem, but you'll be dealing with it with your kids. The neighbors who treat their own kids like dirt will treat your kids the same way.

I'm not sure what you are refering to, but most people in my neighborhood seem to treat their kids pretty well.

Originally Posted by RCL

And if you're any other ethnicity besides pure lily-white, then good luck. Heck, until about 25 years ago, the church doctrine stated that blacks were cursed by God so they couldn't advance in the church and they had no hope of making it to the highest level of heaven. Then supposedly around 81 or 82 God spoke to their leader and said that blacks were forgiven. However, there are still a lot of racists here in Utah especially in the St. George area.

Yes Utah is not the most diverse place on the planet. On the other hand, I work in Human Resources for Zions Bank, one of the biggest employers in the state, and I can tell you that diversity and EEO are huge topics there. The rest of this paragraph is pure race-baiting.

Originally Posted by RCL

So regarding your comment about a theological forum I do agree with you, but on the other hand, here is the correlation to this forum: You or anyone else may or may not want to discuss religion at all. But the fact is, these people do. And they will bring it up over and over again, and over and over again, and over and over again, and over and over again, ad nauseum. Their way of life is to try and convert people to their thinking, it's how they earn blessings for themselves. Until you dish it right back at them (that you believe differently and here's why...). Then when they realize they can't hook into their brainwashing, they will eventually leave you alone. That is, until the next one comes along. Not all Mormons are like that, but it's the rule rather than the exception especially here in Utah.

While I disagree with the tone of this paragraph, I do agree with you that religion is valid when it pertains to what it is like to live in Utah.

Originally Posted by RCL

So if anyone reading this is considering moving to Utah, this is what you will find here. If you can handle it, then you'll probably find other things to appreciate such as the natural beauty and outdoorsy things to do.

After reading your angry tone, I have to wonder what keeps you in Utah, since you seem to hate it so much. At least I can agree with you on the beautiful natural surroundings.

[RCL]

Coolcats,

I have read other forums besides this one on the internet that talk of the discrimination that goes on in Utah against non-Mormons. As far as the rest of your post, I understand that you are just on the defensive, as was Elder Shawn, which is totally expectable given the fact that there are folks like me are willing to stand up and speak the truth about what goes on here. (Maybe you and Elder Shawn are the same poster, who knows?)

Of course I realize that everything is what you make it. I overlook a lot that goes on here and stay content. Calling me angry is a bit unjustified, don't you think, since you've never met me...and you've never walked a mile in anyone else's shoes (much less mine). Saying that I "hate it so much" is putting words in my mouth.

As I read through all your posts here, reading your judgmentalism of others' posts, including mine, it makes me wonder what makes you think you're in charge?

Anyway, it doesn't bother me that you disagree with my points, it's a free country, and you can name call me and accuse me all you want, but the reality is that both Utah and Southern Idaho are very clique-ish places to live because of the LDS influence. Like I said, if someone non-LDS is willing to accept this and know what to watch out for, then they can find ways to enjoy their time here/there.