Questions about being Non-LDS in Utah (Kearns: shops, rich, activities)

[jest721]

I apologize for this unusual dietary direction of the thread on coffee. I originally asked why mormons don't let their kids play with coffee drinkers. I would like to offer up a theory. Very rough, but perhaps it will steer us toward the general topic of this thread.
It seems that recruiting is a very important part of mormon culture. They send teenagers out to knock on doors, and they are tenacious about inviting other to church. The mormon perception of non mormons is that everyone else is trying to recruit the mormons. Somehow, if I drink coffee, or like a beer and a dog at a baseball game, I am trying to trick them into having a beer. I could care less if you drink, I'll throw back a couple more and you can drive me home. But, I am not out to sneak your kids a little extra caffeine so I can turn them over to the dark side. Believe me, I don't want your kids playing at my house if they are all hopped up on espressos.
I just want my kids, and my neighbors kids to be able to choose who they play with based on who has the best toys, like when I was a child, not on the parents dietary preferences.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by jest721

An accurate comparison would be if your children came over to eat and all the food in the house was coffee, liqour, and heroin, and illicit sex. That is hardly the case, and usually I only drink coffee in the morning anyway.

I know the point of the discussion. I am only attempting to explain that such matters can be a real hot button item for some. I worry about offending others, ESPECIALLY over religious issues, so I tread as if I am in a minefield.

Regardless of any peculiar personality traits he may have had, T.E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) well understood the role of religious beliefs in society and the absolute necessity of honoring those beliefs. It was one of the reasons he was so masterful in organizing the Arabs and gaining their support.

As for your second point, WOW! I assume that mormons don't have coffee cups for drinking hot chocolate in their homes because a paronoid neighbor may rat them out to your church? Do you think God knows what is in your cup? Do you think he cares what your friends think you are drinking?
I am not unfamiliar with religion, and I am familiar with the idea that you should avoid the appearance of wrongdoing. But my understanding is that it is between you and God, not you and your friends.

I don't do what I do for God or that I am worried the Bishop might receive a bad report on me. I do it because I am a representative of my Church and don't want to bring the organization discredit. Make no mistake about it, people will use the slightest excuse to point the finger of condemnation at my religion.

[scirocco22]

Oh man, I'm stayin' out of this now!

*waves*

--'rocco

[shanenlori]

Sometimes it is best to agree to disagree, as you will never be seeing eye to eye on the subject.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by jest721

The mormon perception of non mormons is that everyone else is trying to recruit the mormons. Somehow, if I drink coffee, or like a beer and a dog at a baseball game, I am trying to trick them into having a beer. I could care less if you drink, I'll throw back a couple more and you can drive me home. But, I am not out to sneak your kids a little extra caffeine so I can turn them over to the dark side. Believe me, I don't want your kids playing at my house if they are all hopped up on espressos.
I just want my kids, and my neighbors kids to be able to choose who they play with based on who has the best toys, like when I was a child, not on the parents dietary preferences.

I can only speak for me. No, I don't think non-Mormons are trying to recruit Mormons. No, I don't think non-Mormons are trying to sneak kids or anyone, for that matter, caffeine. On the contrary, I believe that people have no such intent; however, even though they have no intent, the mere fact that they indulge has some effect on young impressionable minds. We know this based on scientific study.

You may find that some parents have a low threshold of tolerance, but with what I have written here, you may have a better understanding of why.

[jest721]

So the simplest answer is that if your kids see me drinking coffee, they might start drinking coffee? That just makes no sense to me, statistics notwithstanding. It just seems paranoid.

[chazcrew]

My own guidelines are rather vague, but in general: I want to know if there's alcohol, cigarettes, or guns in the home. Those are things kids get into, with bad consequences.

Coffee does not bother me. My kids know we don't drink it, and they know other people do. End of story. I don't, however, offer it in my home. My last houseguest was perfectly happy to find the nearest Starbucks for her fix. I'm positive I played with plenty of kids when I was young, whose parents smoked, drank, and guzzled coffee every morning. I also babysat for many families like that. It was no big deal, except that I hated the way the smell of smoke stuck to me when I got home.

And I have never had a drink, or a smoke, or even coffee.

[smithmi]

I know it dose not make much sense to most people, living the word of wisdom is quite important to really good LDS people. Several people in my ward drink coffee. I see them in the store every morning getting coffee. That dose not make them bad people, in fact all of them are pretty close friends. Somehow we have made the jump, or assumption, that if you drink coffee that we would not get along. To use the quote “You would not like me” That is simply dead wrong. I would like you. Life is all about choices. One can choose to follow the word of wisdom, or one can choose to not. I don’t think the LDS community decides to like or dislike a person because they choose not to follow the word of wisdom to the letter. I for one am not convinced that coffee hurts you. Maybe it does???? It comes down to what your church leaders believe, and the standards they set. It’s like telling your kids not to sit to close to the TV. It’s not medically proven that it hurts the kid, it’s your rule. If your kid sits to close do you decide you don’t like the kid? Obviously not. You just want what is best. That is like friendship, you only want what is best for your friend.
One of the things that is never said out loud with friends is that you want what is best for your friend. Maybe best friends tell each other that stuff but when was the last time you sat in church and told the person your sitting next to that you wished he/she would wash better because you feel it is in their best interest to stay clean. So if they don’t wash, do you dislike them? I like all people. Even the people on this forum seem to be pretty cool. I do not take a dislike to a person until they prove to me wrong. I start out with the best friend image with everyone. Without cause, they will probably remain my friend for a long time. Their personal choices (That dose not effect me) are their business. This forum has shown me that these folks are smarter than the average bear. I enjoy discussion that has a point. By the way, my brother in-law is a bishop that seems to be acquainted with the Kearns bishop. He said the guy was a little out of plumb but would not invite people to leave the ward. Dose not mean he did not, but is highly unlikely.
One more point. We have made a lot of reference to offering kids this and that but how many of you understand what is acceptable to the LDS community? One thing that worries me is that (In good faith) you offer my child what you think is OK but in my faith it is not so OK. Not because you are trying to corrupt or violate any kind of LDS standards, but rather not knowing any better. (Boy that sounded harsh but I did not mean it that way)
As all you that are parents with small children know, we allow our kids into other homes where we know that the adults are going to be examples for our kids. Do we allow our kids to go to a place where we need to explain its OK for them to have bad habits but its not OK for my kid to have bad habits, and to need to do this with every visit?

[coolcats]

I remember when I was a kid, probably 6 or 7, another kid offered me some of their parents' "sun tea." Because my mom had already taught me not to drink tea, it was easy to say no.

Maybe that's why it's no big deal to me. Maybe other people had different experiences, so they see things differently.

[jest721]

Originally Posted by smithmi

I know it dose not make much sense to most people...Several people in my ward drink coffee. I see them in the store every morning getting coffee. That dose not make them bad people...we have made the jump, or assumption, that if you drink coffee that we would not get along...
One more point. We have made a lot of reference to offering kids this and that but how many of you understand what is acceptable to the LDS community? One thing that worries me is that (In good faith) you offer my child what you think is OK but in my faith it is not so OK. Not because you are trying to corrupt or violate any kind of LDS standards, but rather not knowing any better. (Boy that sounded harsh but I did not mean it that way)
As all you that are parents with small children know, we allow our kids into other homes where we know that the adults are going to be examples for our kids. Do we allow our kids to go to a place where we need to explain its OK for them to have bad habits but its not OK for my kid to have bad habits, and to need to do this with every visit?

I understand the personal choice. From what I can see it takes a lot of self restraint to be a mormon. I have no quabble with your dietary requirements.
What I don't understand is why my children can not play with yours (or some other mormon children, they are everywhere I live) because I drink coffee. Everyone makes it sound like the moment your child steps into my house I open the cupboard of sin to them. This goes back to my point about recruiting. I am not trying to sneak something to your kids. I don't give my own children coffee primarily because I don't want them caffeinated; your children would be no different.
I'm sure this issue transcends a hot cup of joe in the morning so you could expand on some of the other unusual requirements to socialize.