Questions about being Non-LDS in Utah (Kearns: how much, home, schools)

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by jest721

I understand the personal choice. From what I can see it takes a lot of self restraint to be a mormon. I have no quabble with your dietary requirements.
What I don't understand is why my children can not play with yours (or some other mormon children, they are everywhere I live) because I drink coffee.

Where have you been told that LDS kids can’t play with your kids because you don’t obey our rules? I don’t recall seeing this posted. If there is an LDS parent, who doesn’t want their child playing with yours because of this issue, it is their prerogative, and you needn’t be concerned. There is no point in agonizing over what other parents want for their children.

[jest721]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

Where have you been told that LDS kids can’t play with your kids because you don’t obey our rules? I don’t recall seeing this posted. If there is an LDS parent, who doesn’t want their child playing with yours because of this issue, it is their prerogative, and you needn’t be concerned. There is no point in agonizing over what other parents want for their children.

Thank you for seeing things my way. Since it is apparently not written anywhere, why is it such a common practice? As far as needn't be concerned, you may have a point, but you either have no children or if you do, are completely oblivious to their needs. It is one thing to alienate me, I'm a grown man with thick skin, I'll be OK; it's something else entirely when it's my children. Prerogative? Fine. But what I want to know is where this idea comes from, and how anyone can rationalize it. If your faith says don't let your kids play with them, fine. It's just that, faith. As you stated, It isn't written anywhere, but it is practiced as though it were.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by jest721

Thank you for seeing things my way. Since it is apparently not written anywhere, why is it such a common practice? As far as needn't be concerned, you may have a point, but you either have no children or if you do, are completely oblivious to their needs. It is one thing to alienate me, I'm a grown man with thick skin, I'll be OK; it's something else entirely when it's my children. Prerogative? Fine. But what I want to know is where this idea comes from, and how anyone can rationalize it. If your faith says don't let your kids play with them, fine. It's just that, faith. As you stated, It isn't written anywhere, but it is practiced as though it were.

I can't answer your questions. I don't even understand why the rich and famous won't call me so we can do lunch.

My kids are grown, but they were Mormon and the childern of a cop in California. Two huge social strikes against them in the land of whatever makes you feel good is OK. They are perfectly normal.

[jest721]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

I can't answer your questions. I don't even understand why the rich and famous won't call me so we can do lunch.

My kids are grown, but they were Mormon and the childern of a cop in California. Two huge social strikes against them in the land of whatever makes you feel good is OK. They are perfectly normal.

I'm a little confused. I have no idea what you are trying to tell me. But I did get that your kids have turned out well. I hope I can be so lucky.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by jest721

I'm a little confused. I have no idea what you are trying to tell me. But I did get that your kids have turned out well. I hope I can be so lucky.

You asked where this idea about LDS kids not playing with non-LDS kids originated. I can't answer this question. It is not Church doctrine; therefore, it must be the personal preferences of the parents or the children around you. Just like why the rich and famous don't call me for lunch. They prefer the company of others. I don't know why; I'm a very svelte and adroit guy.

You inferred I didn’t understand the emotional stressors on children when they are excluded from various and sundry social circles and activities. I believe I have demonstrated otherwise, and there is probably no need to worry. Adversity only makes us stronger.

[jest721]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

You asked where this idea about LDS kids not playing with non-LDS kids originated. I can't answer this question. It is not Church doctrine; therefore, it must be the personal preferences of the parents or the children around you. Just like why the rich and famous don't call me for lunch. They prefer the company of others. I don't know why; I'm a very svelte and adroit guy.

You inferred I didn’t understand the emotional stressors on children when they are excluded from various and sundry social circles and activities. I believe I have demonstrated otherwise, and there is probably no need to worry. Adversity only makes us stronger.

I do think I have more in common with my neighbors than you do with the rich and famous. Parents can make whatever decision they want for their children. I'm looking for some rationale behind this behavior. Since it's obviously not required by your religion, there must be some (logical? rational?) thought behind it for it to be so extensively practiced. Unfortunately, very few people have been able to offer any real insight, particularly from an opposing point of view. But I will keep asking the question.
Your statement about adversity, very interesting.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by jest721

Since it's obviously not required by your religion, there must be some (logical? rational?) thought behind it for it to be so extensively practiced.

Jest—you must be jesting. Humans do not operate in a state of logic and reason most of the time. Clearly, you need to watch more reruns of the original Star Trek.

[jest721]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

Jest—you must be jesting. Humans do not operate in a state of logic and reason most of the time. Clearly, you need to watch more reruns of the original Star Trek.

I think that when individuals make decisions they internally rationalize that decision. Hopefully it will be logical or rational, but there is always some amount of reasoning behind it.

[REBL]

Smithsi - trust me, it happened albeit 12 years ago. There is more than one bishop in Kearns, I'm sure and I doubt this guy is still it. My ex even went over to confront him about it. Born and raised LDS, my parents and brother are still very active and I respect their beliefs. I wouldn't make stuff up that isn't true about the LDS church. I was always told growing up, "You can't judge the church by the people in it." Unfortunately I have run across a lot of difficult people. Just my experience....

[smithmi]

REBL, I am really sorry that happened to you. Like I said in a prior post I am one of those people that confronts idiots. I would like a few minutes with that bishop. Something along the lines of "what is wrong with you". I am a 30 year retired cop, been retired for almost a year now. During my career I was unable to express my opinion, but now I can say what I want. (Even to a bishop). I am sorry but I am still struggeling with a bishop asking anyone to leave a ward, but if you say it happened, It happened. It is so far out of the norm and quite frankly against everything I have been taught or have seen. I will tell you that it is extremly rare. In my church life (Some 50 years) I have not seen a bishop act like that. Even in my career I have arrested a couple of bishops. (Don't panic-Not moral turpitude issues) Good people doing stupid things.
Please understand, People make up the most crazy stories about mormons that make us all look pretty bad. I have made it a goal in my life to follow up on the stories I hear and expose the issues, good or bad. 99.999% of the stories are bull crap. The stories that are true NEED TO BE EXPOSED. If we have idiots in our community they need to be weeded out. If your story is true, and (I have no reason to beleive it is not) you need to name names. Use caution, if the story is not true, then their are people in this world um..ha..emm. emm that will bring it to light. One would not look very good were it not true.
I beleive in my faith, I beleive in the people, Yes I even beleive in my bishop. And I beleive in you that your telling me a straight story. But don't be mad if the stake president makes some sort of statement to the Kerns bishops about idiots, or at least being perceived as an idiot. I don't intend to solve all the problems in the world, not going to try, but I will solve the problems that I can. Now that I'm not gagged by being a public servent I can put some of these stories in perspective.
The LDS people are great people, I will say it again, Your best friend is sitting in church. Don't let idiots ruin your opinion. Expose them.! And have a happy, clean, fun family life.
If I offended anyone I am sorry.