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Old 01-25-2007, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Over Yonder..
77 posts, read 268,963 times
Reputation: 26

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I grew up in So. Ca. and live now In St. George...Many of my summers growing up were spent in Midway, Utah where my mom was raised...Some of my family members are Mormon, others are not..I personally am not...2 of my best friends through grammar to high school were Mormon..We did everything together..We would go out to for burgers and I would drink coke and they would drink root beer..I attended many functions at their Ward through the years....I was always welcome and no one ever pushed their beliefs on me..Nor did I to anyone else....My girlfriends stood true to their beliefs...My mom drank coffee and smoked...Their parents were aware of that and were always allowed to come to my home... I assume they had enough confidence that their children had certain values instilled in them and would trust them to make right decisions...Believe me we were exposed to a lot more at school than my moms coffee and cigarettes!... Now my own kids are raised and I have grandchildren...Looking back after reading this topic in the forum...Possibly the fact that I hung out with my Mormon best friends helped keep me on a clean path...Ya never caught us out drinking or doing drugs...(There was a little mischief occasionally...We were kids)........But I am going to give credit where credit is due..

I have one family member..A good Christian woman...Miss high and Mighty!... I love her dearly, but she is so quick to judge others and look down on them...Point being that can happen in any church, any race, any faith...She's one of those that believe that Mormon's are a cult...My personal belief is that we are all praying to the same God...When there are family get togethers...We enjoy each others company, laugh, love, and have a good time...In our hearts we are all the same...

We have only lived in Utah a few months...Am loving it so far...Many people that I have talked to were from Ca. also...( Thank you for having and accepting us)...My sons family moved here with us too...So far I haven't seen that Mormon-Non Mormon thing happening with my grandson in school....Maybe people think they are going to be an outcast and maybe feel they are...Yet maybe in certain areas it does happen...Possibly we are just blind or too open minded to see it happening I don't know lol...No one has come knocking on our doors trying to convert us...And the good news is that we haven't been kicked out of the neighborhood yet! Jk..lol

I just thought I would throw my 2 cents in....A Non Mormon, moved to Utah, and feels accepted and equal..Thanks~

 
Old 01-25-2007, 03:43 PM
 
744 posts, read 842,757 times
Reputation: 173
Many mormons are categorically dismissive about this and other issues. It is not something you are fully aware of until you are the victim. As a white anglo-saxon protestant, it is difficult for me to comprehend an inner-city black teenage male's struggle with racism. That does not mean that it does not exist. I'm glad that many have had good experiences, and I think mormons are generally good people, but does anyone have any welcoming experiences in Utah County, and two cities in particular. I am certain I am not alone in this.
 
Old 01-26-2007, 01:56 AM
 
Location: Grandview Heights, OH
127 posts, read 675,677 times
Reputation: 102
I am a young married man, relocating to the SLC area soon to attend university there and I had some questions and things like that about the LDS religion. I drink occasionally, don't drink coffee (only because it doesn't taste very good), and don't smoke. I live a very wholesome life, and work hard and have good moral ethics. My question(s) at the moment are to the LDS posters on here are they are:
Would you choose not to socialize with me due to me occasional drinking? Am I a weak person in your eyes?
And the other one is: Why on earth don't you like coffee, and/or people who drink it? That has to be one of the more strange things I have heard of within a religion, and I would love some clarification on this.
I have no religious beliefs, or background, and i'm not interested in becoming a member of the church of LDS, but I like to learn about different beliefs, and look forward to moving to your area!
 
Old 01-26-2007, 02:45 AM
 
1 posts, read 2,955 times
Reputation: 10
Default I must jump in here

I was searching this forum for some input on where to move in the South. I read the nice person's request for information on moving to Utah and the possibility of problems with not being LDS. Of course, the thread is now discussing Mormon's Word of Wisdom and the Coffee debate. I grew up in Bountiful Utah, a bedroom community of Salt Lake. Bountiful happens to be around 90% LDS. I am Catholic. We were raised Catholic and today I am married to a Catholic, and my three children were all baptized as infants. Yes, I grew up with parents who drank, smoked and even had a coffee now and then. Now, I was around them quite a lot and today I do not drink Coffee, alcohol, or smoke. Why, I don't know, it certainly is not against my religion. I guess I just don't like the taste. My husband has coffee in the morning and a cocktail in the evening. We do have a few families who will not allow my children to play with their's. Why? I have asked them but I never get a straight answer. My children are great kids, awesome students, gifted musicians, and fun to be around. There are a couple of kids who can come over and my kids are welcome to their house. My husband does not hide his coffee or his cocktail but he certainly does not flaunt it in front of the kids. I always ask parents of my kid's friends if they have guns or violent video games. If they do have one or both, my kids cannot play there unless I am with them. The difference between me and the LDS parents in our neighborhood is that I tell them why they cannot play. They understand and usually feel the same way.

I have a niece who is a return missionary and she has told me that coffee, alcohol and cigs are not allowed so that the members will be healthier. I think this is a good idea. Unfortunatly the word of wisdom does allow chocolate and junk food.

Regarding moving here, if you enjoy the mountains, the outdoors, can handle the cold in the winters and the heat in the summers, and you can afford it, they do it. It is clean, we have crime but no more than the national average, but housing and the cost of living are out of control. Groceries went up 3% last month. In the five years since we purchased our home (on the east bench) our house has doubled in value. Unfortunatly we cannot afford to buy a bigger house in Salt Lake so we are looking elsewhere.

The schools are good, the people are friendly, you have music, dance, opera, theater etc all around you. Just be prepared to spend a ton of money for a house unless you want to live on the west side of town which has a higher crime rate and is further away from downtown.

Sorry for the lengthy discussion.
 
Old 01-26-2007, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Ellington
56 posts, read 111,301 times
Reputation: 46
I will give this a whirl,
Would you choose not to socialize with me due to me occasional drinking? Am I a weak person in your eyes?
Not at all, You want to drink, Knock yourself out. I will not be going with you, dosent mean I don't like you. Are you weak? Why are you drinking? Escape? Fun? Don't know any better?
Why on earth don't you like coffee, and/or people who drink it?
I like coffee, my faith tells ne not to drink it. I like people who drink coffee however, I beleive it is not proper (Just due to my religon)to drink the stuff. If you choose to drink coffee the same thing as above applies, I will not be drinking it with you.
"That has to be one of the more strange things I have heard of"
Well one of the strange things I have heard of is to make up your mind that "I have no religious beliefs, or background, and i'm not interested in becoming a member of the church of LDS" before you know anything about it. How do you know you would not like it? If your basing your decisions on members from what your reading on the web your grossly misinformed. I beleive I would wait to make those decisions until you get setteled in, make some friends, learn a little about the community.
Please remember YOU ASKED. Welcome to Utah. By the way, BYU is going to beat the sox off Utah. And I went to the U.
Good luck
 
Old 01-26-2007, 10:36 AM
 
1,125 posts, read 2,455,749 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdmlions View Post
I drink occasionally, don't drink coffee (only because it doesn't taste very good), and don't smoke. I live a very wholesome life, work hard, and have good moral ethics. My question(s) at the moment are to the LDS posters here:
Quote:
Would you choose not to socialize with me due to me occasional drinking? Am I a weak person in your eyes?
First, how representative of the total population of non-LDS residents of Utah do you think these posts are? Rational examination will tell you that only the minutest sample is reflected in these posts. This means that what you read here is statistically insignificant, and you need not really be concerned.

Next, keep in mind that some of the posts wherein people complain about being excluded socially by LDS members are from people who have “an axe to grind” with the LDS faith and the information is skewed to a certain degree or an outright misrepresentation.

Finally, regardless of what you have read here, the plain and simple truth is that LDS people socialize with non-LDS alcohol consuming, smoking, and coffee drinking people everyday. The vast majority of my friends are non-LDS. They respect me for my values, and here is another truth: They go out of the way to accommodate me at non-LDS social events by making sure products I can consume are present.

My friends, who are not LDS, all consume coffee or alcohol, and I do not think they are weak. By the very nature of our occupation, we must be strong emotionally, ethically, and morally; thus, I do not believe they are weak because they drink coffee or alcohol.

Quote:
Why on earth don't you like coffee and/or people who drink it? That has to be one of the more strange things I have heard of within a religion, and I would love some clarification on this.
We don’t drink coffee because we believe in an early revelation received in the 1800s through the first Prophet of our Church, which taught us that drinking coffee, tea, and alcohol were harmful to the body. It also taught us that smoking tobacco was harmful.

Although the scientific reasons for abstinence regarding the use of these products were not made clear at the time of the revelation, it is now known that all of these products are addictive and harmful to the body to some extent. Coffee, specifically, contains caffeine, acids, and other residues that are harmful. Some common side effects of coffee consumption include: irritability, anxiety, headaches, and PVC’s (Premature Ventricular Contractions).

Quote:
I have no religious beliefs or background, and I’m not interested in becoming a member of the church of LDS, but I like to learn about different beliefs and look forward to moving to your area!
Well, if you are interested in learning about different beliefs, then I suggest you start by calling the toll free number for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and ask for a visit from the missionaries. When they arrive, tell them you are interested in learning about the Church. What you do with the information they give you will be up to you. Their purpose will be to try and convince you to join the Church, but since you are not interested, you will at least gain valuable information in your quest for learning.
 
Old 01-26-2007, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Grandview Heights, OH
127 posts, read 675,677 times
Reputation: 102
Hey, thanks very much for the info guys. If there is one thing i'm not, it's close minded, so when I get to Utah in a month or two, I look forward to meeting everybody there. The info about the coffee was exactly what I was looking for, and I understand your reasons for not drinking it now. When I said I am not interested in joining the LDS religion, I didn't mean to offend anyone, and I apoligize. It's got nothing to do with me believing/not believing what i've read, and more about me and my beliefs...and as far as supporting BYU, after you went to the 'U', I don't know much about this rivalry yet, but: shame, shame, shame
 
Old 01-26-2007, 12:44 PM
 
744 posts, read 842,757 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantL View Post
First, how representative of the total population of non-LDS residents of Utah do you think these posts are? Rational examination will tell you that only the minutest sample is reflected in these posts. This means that what you read here is statistically insignificant, and you need not really be concerned.

Next, keep in mind that some of the posts wherein people complain about being excluded socially by LDS members are from people who have “an axe to grind” with the LDS faith and the information is skewed to a certain degree or an outright misrepresentation.

Finally, regardless of what you have read here, the plain and simple truth is that LDS people socialize with non-LDS alcohol consuming, smoking, and coffee drinking people everyday...
If all else fails, deny, deny, deny. Interesting, I posted earlier that many mormons are dismissive about poor treatment toward non-mormons. You have proven my point. Nearly every post by a non-mormon on this thread has stated that they have some good mormon friends, but always with that caveat that there are a a few mormons...
Maybe part of the problem is that although the unwelcoming may be a minority, by virtue of their actions, they are the vocal minority.
The bottom line is, people who are similar tend to cluster. When you come to places like Utah, as a non-member, you will be entering someone elses world. Many will be accomodating and friendly, some will not. Some will be accepting of your different perspective, others distrustful. For something that many mormons take personally, diet for example, you may be alienated for practicing differently. This would be the case whenever you are the minority.
 
Old 01-26-2007, 01:06 PM
 
1,125 posts, read 2,455,749 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
If all else fails, deny, deny, deny. Interesting, I posted earlier that many mormons are dismissive about poor treatment toward non-mormons. You have proven my point...The bottom line is, people who are similar tend to cluster. When you come to places like Utah, as a non-member, you will be entering someone elses world. Many will be accomodating and friendly, some will not. Some will be accepting of your different perspective, others distrustful.
It only proves your point within your own construct, Jest, which has no validation other than your own opinion. No matter where one might move, there will be numerous social circles. We all find our niche; it is a fact of life. As I told you, I am still waiting for the rich and famous to call me. Do you think it might be me, or has it something to do with the fact that my phone number is unlisted?
 
Old 01-26-2007, 01:17 PM
 
744 posts, read 842,757 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantL View Post
It only proves your point within your own construct, Jest, which has no validation other than your own opinion. No matter where one might move, there will be numerous social circles. We all find our niche; it is a fact of life. As I told you, I am still waiting for the rich and famous to call me. Do you think it might be me, or has it something to do with the fact that my phone number is unlisted?
I'm pretty sure that agrees with my last post. I mentioned not fitting in as a memeber of the minority is likely.
As far as an invalidated point, you, like many others, are categorically dismissive of anyone who you view as threatening your beliefs. You validate this by shamelessly painting us all as someone with an axe to grind. I have admitted that poor behavior is not representative of the entirety of the mormon mindset. This does not mean it does not exist. I hold no animosity toward good neighbors, and feel primarily confusion and curiousity toward poor ones. Again, I have far more in common with my negihbors than you do with the ambiguous rich.
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