Ten worst things about living in Utah ? (Murray, Park City: school, wage)

[kaytidid]

OH! And the skyline. I never KNEW what a skyline could look like until I moved here. How gorgeous!!

[Goldwing]

Originally Posted by kaytidid

OH! And the skyline. I never KNEW what a skyline could look like until I moved here. How gorgeous!!

Yea a skyline dead on the weekend usually

[kaytidid]

I don't know what one you are looking at, but every skyline I have seen (even on the weekends) is blazing with lights and gorgeous....even when I landed in Salt Lake early Saturday morning (2AM). The airport was dead, but the ride to the hotel was beautiful.

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by VC dreamer

This is a very good point, and I'm glad you brought it up. Thanks for saying this.

I think that there are times when things get a little extreme on both sides in this forum. One side is outraged, and the other gets defensive.

For the ones who come and complain, I have total empathy for, (and I even have to chuckle sometimes, because it reminds me so much of me when I first got here) I know they're frustrated, and confounded, and having issues with culture shock, and it's not something that goes away in 2 weeks, it takes time. Hopefully things will get easier for them as time passes, but sometimes just being able to vent, and to know that others have had to deal with the same things too, helps calm it down and validates it for them.

But, on the other hand, when you live someplace you truly love, and are a part of the majority religion, in a extremely religious place, this is your home. These people are your family and friends, teachers, neighbors and mentors. I'm sure these complaints and comments, using the religion as a scapegoat, can get old, and may at times even seem as personal attacks. This is your "home", after all. Ones natural instict is to protect that which they care for. And, I can only guess that after being "attacked" from time to time,(maybe more than less) that perhaps some see attacks, when truly, none was meant.

Sometimes, you just need to step back, and see both sides.

that is 100% true. but it goes both ways as well. where someone takes offense to how 'judgmental' they think the mormons are being, usually, there is no judgment there.

it does get old to hear everyone complaining about the mormons. the mormons this, the mormons that. and in the complaints, i read/listen to some of the most ridiculous accusations. not the least of which is because those are traits common to every state or country i have ever spent any considerable amount of time in (you want to see judgmental people that frown as soon as they realize that you don't hold their religious beliefs? try living in the south. you want to see theocratic government, go to south america or the middle east. you want to see bad drivers? try... anywhere. but yes, especially south america in my experience).

catrinac just said that even the nice mormons are judgmental... ok. so every mormon is just naturally judgmental. and the rest of the world is assumed not to be. that is not a rational argument. that is what is called a hasty response, born of emotion. it holds no argumentative value, because it is based on a logical fallacy.

if i came on here and posted a list of 10 things that were horrible about utah, such as the smokers, the bars, clubs, street racing, gangs, yadda yadda yadda, probably not a big deal (i doubt that anyone is going to take offense if i complain about gang violence and stuff, but you get the point). but if i complain about that stuff, and try to say that it is the fault of all of the nonmormons and the cali transplants, and begin making accusations that it is because of how awful, uncivilized, and uneducated they all are, i would be willing to bet money--if i were a betting man (had to stop that after i lost a bet to my wife and had to get a pedicure)--that i would rile a lot of you up, and for good reason. the arguments behind my complaints would be weak sauce. no real logic to the rant, no energy or consideration put into the argument, just bitter, ignorant emotion.

not to mention that you can find all of those things of which i am clomplaining, in waaaaay stronger degrees anywhere in the world, which is important in these debates, since it always ceases to be about '10 bad things' and becomes '10 things that makes utah the most behind-the-times, backwater place on earth'.

anyway, i need to quit while i'm ahead of myself. do you guys understand what i'm saying? i realize that i said a lot. but it comes down to two points (i think):

1st: give us the time of day and the benefit of the doubt. not all of us, despite some previously stated sentiment, are jerks (i am, but i'm talking about most of the decent people i know, of which i am not affiliated--just ask my wife), and not all of us are judgmental. i would bet (again, assuming that i had never had to go through the trauma of pretty toe nails) that i am more tolerant and open than the majority of nonmormons in this state. if someone does something that offends you, take a moment to ask yourself if that was intentional, ignorant and benign, or ignorant and judgmental or selfish. there is a difference between all of those options.

2nd: separate emotional response from actual, careful analysis. complaining about how judgmental the mormons are, even the nice ones, seems rather... judmental to me. but i could be by my lonesome in that conclusion, i realize.

take a look at this (specifically the article attached) and see what other people have found about utah:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...rsonality.html

not saying that this is gospel or scientific law, but obviously some other *nonmormons* have found it to be a pretty positive place.

thanks. aaron out.

EDIT: yeah, forgot my disclaimer. i do realize that there are judmental people here, hypocrites, bad drivers, negligent parents, greedy employers, etc. but i do not see that utah has a monopoly on the evils of the world, or even just the evils of suburban society. we're just another state, home to some, strange to others.

[dreameyes]

Originally Posted by stycotl

that is 100% true. but it goes both ways as well. where someone takes offense to how 'judgmental' they think the mormons are being, usually, there is no judgment there.

it does get old to hear everyone complaining about the mormons. the mormons this, the mormons that. and in the complaints, i read/listen to some of the most ridiculous accusations. not the least of which is because those are traits common to every state or country i have ever spent any considerable amount of time in (you want to see judgmental people that frown as soon as they realize that you don't hold their religious beliefs? try living in the south. you want to see theocratic government, go to south america or the middle east. you want to see bad drivers? try... anywhere. but yes, especially south america in my experience).

catrinac just said that even the nice mormons are judgmental... ok. so every mormon is just naturally judgmental. and the rest of the world is assumed not to be. that is not a rational argument. that is what is called a hasty response, born of emotion. it holds no argumentative value, because it is based on a logical fallacy.

if i came on here and posted a list of 10 things that were horrible about utah, such as the smokers, the bars, clubs, street racing, gangs, yadda yadda yadda, probably not a big deal (i doubt that anyone is going to take offense if i complain about gang violence and stuff, but you get the point). but if i complain about that stuff, and try to say that it is the fault of all of the nonmormons and the cali transplants, and begin making accusations that it is because of how awful, uncivilized, and uneducated they all are, i would be willing to bet money--if i were a betting man (had to stop that after i lost a bet to my wife and had to get a pedicure)--that i would rile a lot of you up, and for good reason. the arguments behind my complaints would be weak sauce. no real logic to the rant, no energy or consideration put into the argument, just bitter, ignorant emotion.

not to mention that you can find all of those things of which i am clomplaining, in waaaaay stronger degrees anywhere in the world, which is important in these debates, since it always ceases to be about '10 bad things' and becomes '10 things that makes utah the most behind-the-times, backwater place on earth'.

anyway, i need to quit while i'm ahead of myself. do you guys understand what i'm saying? i realize that i said a lot. but it comes down to two points (i think):

1st: give us the time of day and the benefit of the doubt. not all of us, despite some previously stated sentiment, are jerks (i am, but i'm talking about most of the decent people i know, of which i am not affiliated--just ask my wife), and not all of us are judgmental. i would bet (again, assuming that i had never had to go through the trauma of pretty toe nails) that i am more tolerant and open than the majority of nonmormons in this state. if someone does something that offends you, take a moment to ask yourself if that was intentional, ignorant and benign, or ignorant and judgmental or selfish. there is a difference between all of those options.

2nd: separate emotional response from actual, careful analysis. complaining about how judgmental the mormons are, even the nice ones, seems rather... judmental to me. but i could be by my lonesome in that conclusion, i realize.

take a look at this (specifically the article attached) and see what other people have found about utah:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...rsonality.html

not saying that this is gospel or scientific law, but obviously some other *nonmormons* have found it to be a pretty positive place.

thanks. aaron out.

EDIT: yeah, forgot my disclaimer. i do realize that there are judmental people here, hypocrites, bad drivers, negligent parents, greedy employers, etc. but i do not see that utah has a monopoly on the evils of the world, or even just the evils of suburban society. we're just another state, home to some, strange to others.

Excellent post! Well said.
Like you said it is rather judgemental to generalize all mormons as judgemental.

[Chickrae]

Originally Posted by kaytidid

I don't know what one you are looking at, but every skyline I have seen (even on the weekends) is blazing with lights and gorgeous....even when I landed in Salt Lake early Saturday morning (2AM). The airport was dead, but the ride to the hotel was beautiful.

Yes very beautiful. Especially situated with those mountains in the background. When snow is on them, even more beautiful. I have yet to see such a pretty skyline. Tulsa, OK where I live is actuallly pretty at night also but nothing like Salt Lake

[Chickrae]

Originally Posted by dreameyes

Excellent post! Well said.
Like you said it is rather judgemental to generalize all mormons as judgemental.

ditto to that. I live in the bible belt.........lots of baptists. It's like me saying in the Oklahoma forum, all baptists are judgemental......Geez! I think they would be defending their state too and the people that live in it.

[newtoutah]

Oh the sound of waves crashing...birds singing....the beautiful sunsets and sunrises..OH WAIT..LET ME SNAP OUT OF MY ILLUSION....a big mountain not exciting to me..IMO

[SamDanner]

Originally Posted by Goldwing

Considering there a Ten worst things about living in Honolulu how about one on Utah?

Been here a little over 3 years and here's my list a list that's bad enough to wait for home prices to go back up and get the heck out of Dodge.

OK, I was careful to not make any personal attacks so that’s ones out.
Spell check criticism is a weak attack
And telling me don't let the door hit you in the A** is not cleaver or original. So here we go..........



1)Dumb drivers, worse in the winter
There not to smart here with the need for an open book DMV test even

2)No speed bumps to help keep these idiots in there lane, they just wonder over with no regard. (yea I know the snow plows would scrap them off but please

3) No hands off cell phone law state wide, talk about stupidity when you think your car is your living room or putting on make-up and texting on top of it.

4) What a police state with unreal unmarked cop cars for the chicken tickets.
Should see the speed traps they set up for the soccer moms

5) Public TV looks to be designed for the stepford wife with "The Lawrence Welk Show" "Little House on the Prairie"
"Dragnet" War Veterans of Orem and the wars they fought. (not every night please)

6)Way too many fat food places and the people show it big time with there excessive obesity and the capital for prosaic users.
Hang out at the candy section at Target and see the mad rush for a sugar high, talk about traffic jam

7) No festivals or big events on Sunday, only thing good about it is Costco's empty.


8) Wages are appalling here, if someone tell you Utah's cost of livings low get ready for depressing low wages too and they are.
Great for the employers not the workers, people leave in groves because they can't afford to live here anymore.


9)Water, gas, electricity, some of the highest in the country.
Gasoline is the highest in the continental US in Utah , caused by greed and poor regulations

10) And finally, dreadful weather, having yes 4 seasons, cold, even colder, hot, still hot There should be a law here for people to put in a desert landscape over lawns because of the massive water bills here.


So long Utah, hurry up Fed and boost the mortgage company’s so I can get out of here, Ill take Hawaii any day over this.

-------

I hope some of you concur to my findings

My Daughter lives in Park City Utah and I do not know how she even survives. The price of real estate is sky high and out of control. She is married and a school teacher in Oakley Utah. No offense to Mormons, but they run the Goverment. The police Department I saw all drove SUV 4X4,s. Must snow an awful lot. I concur with your Wage assement also.
SamDanner

[kaytidid]

Originally Posted by stycotl

that is 100% true. but it goes both ways as well. where someone takes offense to how 'judgmental' they think the mormons are being, usually, there is no judgment there.

it does get old to hear everyone complaining about the mormons. the mormons this, the mormons that. and in the complaints, i read/listen to some of the most ridiculous accusations. not the least of which is because those are traits common to every state or country i have ever spent any considerable amount of time in (you want to see judgmental people that frown as soon as they realize that you don't hold their religious beliefs? try living in the south. you want to see theocratic government, go to south america or the middle east. you want to see bad drivers? try... anywhere. but yes, especially south america in my experience).

catrinac just said that even the nice mormons are judgmental... ok. so every mormon is just naturally judgmental. and the rest of the world is assumed not to be. that is not a rational argument. that is what is called a hasty response, born of emotion. it holds no argumentative value, because it is based on a logical fallacy.

if i came on here and posted a list of 10 things that were horrible about utah, such as the smokers, the bars, clubs, street racing, gangs, yadda yadda yadda, probably not a big deal (i doubt that anyone is going to take offense if i complain about gang violence and stuff, but you get the point). but if i complain about that stuff, and try to say that it is the fault of all of the nonmormons and the cali transplants, and begin making accusations that it is because of how awful, uncivilized, and uneducated they all are, i would be willing to bet money--if i were a betting man (had to stop that after i lost a bet to my wife and had to get a pedicure)--that i would rile a lot of you up, and for good reason. the arguments behind my complaints would be weak sauce. no real logic to the rant, no energy or consideration put into the argument, just bitter, ignorant emotion.

not to mention that you can find all of those things of which i am clomplaining, in waaaaay stronger degrees anywhere in the world, which is important in these debates, since it always ceases to be about '10 bad things' and becomes '10 things that makes utah the most behind-the-times, backwater place on earth'.

anyway, i need to quit while i'm ahead of myself. do you guys understand what i'm saying? i realize that i said a lot. but it comes down to two points (i think):

1st: give us the time of day and the benefit of the doubt. not all of us, despite some previously stated sentiment, are jerks (i am, but i'm talking about most of the decent people i know, of which i am not affiliated--just ask my wife), and not all of us are judgmental. i would bet (again, assuming that i had never had to go through the trauma of pretty toe nails) that i am more tolerant and open than the majority of nonmormons in this state. if someone does something that offends you, take a moment to ask yourself if that was intentional, ignorant and benign, or ignorant and judgmental or selfish. there is a difference between all of those options.

2nd: separate emotional response from actual, careful analysis. complaining about how judgmental the mormons are, even the nice ones, seems rather... judmental to me. but i could be by my lonesome in that conclusion, i realize.

take a look at this (specifically the article attached) and see what other people have found about utah:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...rsonality.html

not saying that this is gospel or scientific law, but obviously some other *nonmormons* have found it to be a pretty positive place.

thanks. aaron out.

EDIT: yeah, forgot my disclaimer. i do realize that there are judmental people here, hypocrites, bad drivers, negligent parents, greedy employers, etc. but i do not see that utah has a monopoly on the evils of the world, or even just the evils of suburban society. we're just another state, home to some, strange to others.

I SO agree with your whole post, but the edit especially. I tried to make the exact same point in several of my posts. I can't figure out why people feel a need to bust on Utah so. No, it isn't a perfect place. No one ever claimed it to be, but for some reason that I can't figure out, many people that end up here (whether by choice or not) come here thinking that perfection is what they will find. Of course, they are disappointed. Come here only expecting a state in the United States with its own something special to give, and its own trials too.

It doesn't matter if the Mormons are the majority here. It doesn't give the right to judge. I wouldn't dream of living in Alaska and blaming everything on the Natives that live there. Or as long as we are at it, blaming everything in the US on the Native Americans...

I couldn't say it nearly as eloquently as you Aaron...thank you!