Let's Keep it Nice (low income, how much, home)

[coolcats]

Folks -- we have had a number of disgruntled people / trolls who have decided to say their piece on this forum lately. Dissenting opinions are welcome, but please keep your comments constructive and civilized.

There is a difference between stating personal views and experiences, and throwing out personal insults and general mean-spiritedness. Posts of the latter type will be deleted, and threads that degenerate too much will be closed sooner than has been previously done.

This is meant to be a constructive and helpful forum. Please keep it that way.

[petieINzion]

As about 1/2 of the questions on the Utah board deal with non-mormons living among mormons, then U would say that anything that correctly states the public policies of said offical church is off limits?

It seems whoever you are that you want to make this board seem like the chamber of commerce? Well thats fine -- then there should be a big disclaimer on your home page that "Opinions expressed herein are those of the author, however if those opinions differ from some norm to be established by me -- the webmaster -- then they will not be posted".

[Elder_Shawn]

C'mon coolcats lighten up! *sarcasm

[Skiheaven]

I think that when people read your posts they will get the impression that Mormans are way to sensitive to non Mormans wanting to know more about being Morman. Utah is not just about Mormans, so as an LDS person I think it is time now to not judge others and be excepting about the fact that many non Mormans are living in Utah and will move here and that LDS people need to stop being so defensive. People want to move here and they see the Morman church as a road block to making that move. People are very creative from other places as well as liberal and open minded so they are asking questions, making comments. They don't want to live around a bunch of mean people that will single them out in a mean spirted way when they move here. Jesus wants us to love everyone, it doesn't matter if they are Morman or not ! I guess that is my point to lighten up and be a good example.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by Skiheaven

I think that when people read your posts they will get the impression that Mormans are way to sensitive to non Mormans wanting to know more about being Morman. Utah is not just about Mormans, so as an LDS person I think it is time now to not judge others and be excepting about the fact that many non Mormans are living in Utah and will move here and that LDS people need to stop being so defensive. People want to move here and they see the Morman church as a road block to making that move. People are very creative from other places as well as liberal and open minded so they are asking questions, making comments. They don't want to live around a bunch of mean people that will single them out in a mean spirted way when they move here. Jesus wants us to love everyone, it doesn't matter if they are Morman or not ! I guess that is my point to lighten up and be a good example.

Skiheaven -- your intent it good and points are well taken. But, about every two weeks or so, a new poster comes to this site, and wants nothing more than to stir up trouble. They have already formed their opinions about the LDS church, and have no interest in learning more. Their presence has nothing to do with learning about a location and culture.

There is a method I try to follow for determining if a post crosses the line. The "girlscout rule." I replace the group of choice -- most often it does happen to be Mormons -- with the phrase "girlscout." It makes the post seem more humorous or ridiculous, but if I wouldn't want someone saying those things about girlscouts, I think it should go. There are times when it becomes questionable -- ala the post yesterday about Mexicans ruling California. I will usually let one post like that ride to see where it goes, but keep a close eye in the thread because it can easily degenerate.

This is meant to be a forum for people wanting more information on what it is like to live in a state, not for people to express personal umbrage on a tangentially related topic. While the extreme anti-Mormon person may take offense that I had the gall to delete their agenda-ridden fodder, I have to consider the environment that it creates for everyone else. I don't think it is just Mormons that feel uncomfortable when the discussions degenerate as they have.

I will accept fault for carrying on to long with some of these posters. In some respects it becomes a fun hobby to see how much each one of these "unique" posters falls into quite a predictable pattern when their positions are challenged. In another respect, it does become about defending what I see as distortions (willful or otherwise).

Lastly, as SeargentL asked -- I'm curious about your history with the LDS church. In one post below you stated that you are (present tense) LDS, but in your other posts you stated you were (past tense) LDS. Also, note Mormon is spelled with an "o" in the last syllable and not an "a." Not a criticism -- just want to know about your history there.

[Agoraphobic]

Coolcats,

Thanks for making this the sticky at the top of the thread. I just came across the site today, but my initial impression was that people are mostly concerned about the Mormon faith when thinking about moving to Utah. The fact of the matter is, you can't say that a group of people is a specific way, it still comes down to individuals. A faith can teach doctrine, but how people apply (or disregard) those teachings is really up to them.

Some people may have had a great experience with those of the LDS faith that accept and lovingly befriend those from outside of the faith, while others have had the feelings of isolation and pressure to join the LDS church. Everyone will have different experiences, because everyone meets different people.

I for one believe that there are good and bad, fanatics and unbelivers in every religion. It's just sad that only the bad and the fanatics make the news and make a name for a group. You hear things on the new about the terrorist Muslim groups, but very little is broadcast on those of the Muslim faith who are moderate. The same goes for the hispanic communities, the Mormon faith, or even the Catholic Priests. If you really think about it, the only news that is broadcast is stuff that shows the negative side of the world. We need to stop letting the media dictate to us what a group of people is like and understand it's all about the individuals.

With that said, go make friends with those of other faiths and religions and you'll find out that most people are much more accepting that you would think. It's those who have had bad experiences that yell loudest and get the attention, and it's sad because every religion, race, country, etc is mostly good with a few individuals that mess everything up.

Just my two cents,

Agoraphobic

[urban nomad]

I confess I am rather surprised and a bit appalled at how angry and defensive some people seem get on this site when the topic turns to religion. And it frequently seems to turn to religion. Maybe I am just being naive, having never really lived in a place where one's religious orientation was so important. I guess I was sort of hoping this site would be a place where I could learn some interesting things about the community where I live, since I really love cities. They each have their own personality, like people. I think SLC has an interesting and unique personality, but so many seem to want to paint it with one color that blots out everything else.

Just my 2 cents too.

[Calibelle]

I understand why people start threads about what it will be like living in Utah, and not being LDS. But I am sick to death of people jumping in, and talking badly about the LDS faith, and adding comments about what they think is wrong with the way the LDS worship. It's like a broken record, and it's getting old. I am not even going to bother trying to put those "trolls" in their place anymore. It doesn't do any good. I am happy to answer people's genuine questions about what it will be like as non LDS living in Utah, and assure them that all should be well. But I am sick of those kinds of geniune threads being turned into places for those who are bitter against the LDS faith, to have a rant about the church. I especially hate it, when people jump in and talk badly about the church, but have never lived in Utah, and don't even begin to answer the original forum topic.

If someone truely had some sort of a bad experience in Utah, and wants to convey that without bad mouthing the whole LDS religion, then fair enough. But for those of you who want to go off about how evil the LDS church is, or try to bring down doctrines we believe in.... there are other websites for that.

[abnelson]

I was going to say "Amen, Sister! (or Brother!") I joined this site to find out about some cities in Utah, and I also get tired of hearing "Mormons are bad", or "Mormons are good"....Mormons are just people! Some good - some not so good - some bad! Just like the people in any religion.
But....now that I think of it...if I were moving to (?) some area that was predominately Moslem or Hindi or some other religion that I don't know much about I guess I'd be a little worried too. And I would probably ask some similar questions....but it wouldn't be appropriate being told "Don't move there because Moslems are all terrorists....you know they blew up the buildings and planes and stuff!" (My apology to those of you who are Moslem, just trying to make a point.)
As far as the people go perhaps we could just try to reassure each other to make the best out of wherever we move and look for the best. I know I'm kind of an optimist but maybe that's why I always find friends and good people wherever I go.
And yes, even in describing schools, or better areas of town or whatever someone might ask we are giving our opinions, but they should be as fact-based as possible; "school A is much older than school B and not in good repair; the West side of town is mostly low income trailer parks and not kept up well"...does this seem reasonable? (:-)

[7th generation]

Hi everyone. Just thought I'd post a few comments here. First let me say that I lived 18 wonderful years in your great state as a nonmormon. It was one of the best periods of my life and have fond memories of skiing,hiking,camping,fishing and enjoying the wonderful sights and sounds the valley has to offer. I moved back to Maine for personal reasons and if this situation hadn't come up I'd still be a "utahan". There is always naysyers in this type of forum,but I'd personally like to state that my experiences with the population as a whole (Mormon and non-Mormon) was absolutely fantastic! We all shared a desire for a safe enviroment for our families and the values instilled in the communitie
was one of caring and nonselfish respect. I miss Utah and it's people and wish all good luck.