Replace Mormon with ... Discussion

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

The first option involves relocating all U.S. members of the LDS faith to reservations. Since Utah has such a high concentration of members already, I propose the entire state be declared a reservation for LDS members, with the exception of Indian Reservations already established which will be retained by already enumerated indigenous peoples. I further propose that Utah be declared a sovereign nation under the U.S. government’s indigenous people’s reservation model. I defend this option from the perspective that moving the indigenous population of America to reservations was so successful and contributed mightily to their general welfare. In addition, relocation of those of Japanese decent was successful in protecting U.S. security during WWII.

I have a few questions.
First, will the new Mormon reservation have casinos to provide economic stimulus and jobs?

Secondly, how will the reservation deal with the alcoholism among Mormons that will result from lack of work and economic stagnation?

Lastly, will we be allowed fishing rights on par with native Americans? My cousin's husband was part native American and he could fish for Salmon in Washington state where no one else could. That would be cool.

If we can get those questions answered, I'm all for it.

[dreameyes]

"So, is it that because the Mormons, like Jews, were persecuted that it makes it ignorant to say this? Are all sweeping generalizations offensive? Or is it our politically-correct, super-sensitive society that makes this wrong?"

I apoligize that my comment was off-topic. Mormons are just people, people trying to live their religion and be better people. This great country affords us many freedoms that we are truly blessed to have. I think that it is ignorant to make these "too many mormons, because of those controlling mormons, etc." statements because we are just people. It makes us sound like some crazed cult or something. Would it not be offensive if someone went to the Vatican and said something like "...if not for all these Catholics" or if someone went to Jerusaleum and said something about there being too many Jews or that they controlled too much. Is it not one of our freedoms to live the way we choose?

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by coolcats

I have a few questions.
First, will the new Mormon reservation have casinos to provide economic stimulus and jobs?

Secondly, how will the reservation deal with the alcoholism among Mormons that will result from lack of work and economic stagnation?

Lastly, will we be allowed fishing rights on par with native Americans? My cousin's husband was part native American and he could fish for Salmon in Washington state where no one else could. That would be cool.

If we can get those questions answered, I'm all for it.

The Devil is always in the details. First, you will note that I recommended making Utah a sovereign nation. This automatically allows for the establishment of gambling casinos for the purpose of economic stimulation and job training programs, such as Blackjack Dealer, Pit Boss, etc. In addition, a certain percentage of funds derived from gambling interests will be set aside for alcoholism education and treatment programs; however, with full employment for all LDS members in the gambling industry, I believe alcoholism rates will be low.

The salmon issue is more difficult to answer. As far as I know, there are no naturally occurring salmon in Utah. In thinking this issue through, I believe that a cooperative irrigation project between Washington, Idaho, Utah, and the U.S. government is very possible. Through a system of bonds, federal block grants, and private investments, a channel could be dug from the Pacific Ocean to the Great Salt Lake and then to the Gulf of Mexico. This would allow for Pacific Salmon to naturally migrate to Utah. Of course, we would build hydroelectric plants on this channel and sell the power to other states. One possible side effect to this plan will be the significant reduction in salinity of the Great Salt Lake, so tourism may suffer to some extent, because people will no longer be able to walk on water or float bricks, which has been a real tourist draw.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by dreameyes

Is it not one of our freedoms to live the way we choose?

It is a basic fundamental reason this country exists in the first place. It is called "The Pursuit of Happiness." Good Men and women have and will continue to die in defense of this principle.

[ArrowThruTheMoon]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

The Devil is always in the details. First, you will note that I recommended making Utah a sovereign nation. This automatically allows for the establishment of gambling casinos for the purpose of economic stimulation and job training programs, such as Blackjack Dealer, Pit Boss, etc. In addition, a certain percentage of funds derived from gambling interests will be set aside for alcoholism education and treatment programs; however, with full employment for all LDS members in the gambling industry, I believe alcoholism rates will be low.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard it once that Las Vegas has about as many LDS (percentage wise) as Salt Lake City, and that the city itself was founded by Mormons. I've also saw a TV program -in England- that documented that individual LDS members (not the LDS church) has benefited greatly from the gambling industry there, not only as employees but also as landowners, trustees and even as hosts. Is this hearsay?

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by ArrowThruTheMoon

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard it once that Las Vegas has about as many LDS (percentage wise) as Salt Lake City, and that the city itself was founded by Mormons. I've also saw a TV program -in England- that documented that individual LDS members (not the LDS church) has benefited greatly from the gambling industry there, not only as employees but also as landowners, trustees and even as hosts. Is this hearsay?

I've heard that the Las Vegas area is about 10 percent Mormon. That would mean about 120,000 members down there. There certainly are lots of chapels when you drive around the residential neighborhoods, and a temple. Salt Lake city itself is about 50 percent. Las Vegas was founded by Mormons.

Without having seen the documentary, I don't know about the profiteering from gambling. I have heard sometimes Mormons down there have to face the ethical choice of unemployment or work for the casinos.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by ArrowThruTheMoon

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard it once that Las Vegas has about as many LDS (percentage wise) as Salt Lake City, and that the city itself was founded by Mormons. I've also saw a TV program -in England- that documented that individual LDS members (not the LDS church) has benefited greatly from the gambling industry there, not only as employees but also as landowners, trustees and even as hosts. Is this hearsay?

What you have heard actually does tie in with this discussion. Yes, LDS members were some of the first settlers of Las Vegas. Yes, LDS members have made money selling land in Las Vegas. Yes, some, if not all of that land has ended up in the hands of gaming industry interest. Yes, some LDS members work in the gaming industry. Now, let’s examine the whole story.

The press is famous for half truths to create a story. The first Mormon settlers arrived in the 1800s, well before Bugsy Segal ever even heard of the place. In fact, well before Bugsy Segal was even conceived. The press would have you believe the arrival of Mormons and gambling was contemporaneous. The original Mormon settlers were farmers and ranchers. I also believe Las Vegas was a way station for the Utah and California overland stage. Next, Mormons did sell land to buyers, but the selling of land to make money is neither illegal nor immoral; it is what the purchaser does with the land that can eventually become illegal or immoral. LDS members may in fact still own land in Las Vegas and may still be making money through sales. In fact, I bet there is more than one LDS real estate agent in Las Vegas and they are probably making significant amounts of money.

Now, we come to Mormons working in the gaming industry. There might be a few Mormon dealers, but allow me to make this comparison. I am a cop and a Mormon. We Mormons are not supposed to work on Sundays, yet, as a cop, I have worked more Sundays than I can remember. Additionally, I have gone into a few thousand bars and drug houses in the performance of my duties. I also use more than the occasional colorful expletive when attempting to obtain the attention and cooperation of miscreants. I have also had the sickening and nauseating displeasure of collecting and reviewing child pornography evidence. I do all of this in the honorable pursuit of M—O—N—E—Y to keep food on the table and a roof over the heads of my family. You see anything wrong with this?

Finally, what the press doesn’t tell you about Mormons working in the gambling industry is the fact that most members of the LDS faith who work in the field, work in support jobs, such as accountants, attorneys, food service, etc.

You may be asking, how does this tie in with the current discussion? It’s simple. This whole Las Vegas press “expose” is just another attack on our faith. Gambling is a BIG no-no in the Baptist and Methodist faiths. I know, my mother was a Methodist; yet, you hear nothing from the press about Methodists or Baptists working in gaming. It’s only when the press can plug in the word Mormon does it become a newsworthy event.

[ArrowThruTheMoon]

You may be asking, how does this tie in with the current discussion? It’s simple. This whole Las Vegas press “expose” is just another attack on our faith. Gambling is a BIG no-no in the Baptist and Methodist faiths. I know, my mother was a Methodist; yet, you hear nothing from the press about Methodists or Baptists working in gaming. It’s only when the press can plug in the word Mormon does it become a newsworthy event.

That's cool... I hope I was clear (but maybe I wasn't) that I have NO PROBLEM WITH THE LDS church whatsoever. America needs Mormons, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Scientologists, Atheists and even Scientologists (etc)... That's why America is so great! ... I was just following up on your earlier thought on the gambling angle for the Utah you described:

The Devil is always in the details. First, you will note that I recommended making Utah a sovereign nation. This automatically allows for the establishment of gambling casinos for the purpose of economic stimulation and job training programs, such as Blackjack Dealer, Pit Boss, etc. In addition, a certain percentage of funds derived from gambling interests will be set aside for alcoholism education and treatment programs; however, with full employment for all LDS members in the gambling industry, I believe alcoholism rates will be low.

I, in fact, applaud the idea of letting go of the constant ranting about "LDS this" and "Non-LDS that" not only on this site but in life in general.... same with race: while I'm delighted that there was a black coach winning the Superbowl -for example- to be perfectly honest as long as we keep going on highlighting that fact, the race divisions won't go away. The best coach won the Superbowl, end of story.

So, as far as you being a cop and doing your job to put money on the table for your family, I salute that, and thanks for all the good work you do.

But whether what you have to do, day to day in that job, conflict your religious code or not, is absolutely none of my business. Nor anyone else's. The obvious ignorance of some of the forum members here, regarding the LDS faith, is unfortunate - but what a great platform this is to continue with the dialog so that those in the need can learn.

[chazcrew]

Petie: you're wrong. And extremely disrespectful. I would like to ask you, very politely, to please stick to the topic at hand and quit trying to defame the LDS church.

If you'd like to state your opinion that the church is not apolitical, then do so. No need to bring up an entirely unrelated person from a different church in another state who was involved in a sex scandal. What could possibly be the point of that, other than trying to establish a connection between the two entities in the minds of the readers? No need to mockingly refer to the golden plates (which you know full well were not dinnerware), in an attempt to denigrate an entire religion and its founder.

Please stop hurting people.